Finance Committee on May 26th, 2026

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Therefore, you agree with Mr. Guilbeault, who decided to leave us today.

Based on the current measures, are we on track to meet our 2050 targets?

[Moe Kabbara]

I don't think 2050 is off the table, but we'd have to basically think about this through a transformational change of the system, which would include things like the ambitions of our electricity strategy. I would say that our electricity strategy is probably the strongest anchor we've had to realistically reach that level of ambition when it comes to dealing with emissions at that scale.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

You say it's not “off the table”. That means it may be technically possible, but right now, we haven't adopted the policies needed to even think about achieving those objectives. Did I understand correctly?

[Moe Kabbara]

I mean, we believe policies are one aspect. We follow the principle of three pillars: policies that include regulation standards, policies that fall under pricing mechanisms and then the third pillar, which is innovation and investments. Currently, I don't think we have all three in place so that we can confidently say that we're going to hit net zero, but it's also about what we're trying to do to position Canada to follow a path to net zero.

With the ambition of the electricity strategy that was enunciated, I have way more confidence right now than before the electricity strategy that we are definitely on the right track.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

I understand you're more confident now than you were before. That's good.

I'd like to come back to yesterday's Standing Committee on Finance meeting on pre-budget consultations. We had Ms. Helen Tooze from the Canadian Climate Law Initiative. In her brief, she wrote the federal government's climate commitments fluctuate.

How can we achieve objectives that are constantly changing based on current events, geopolitical international tensions, the colour of the government or even the Prime Minister's colour?

How can we achieve objectives that change like the weather?

[Moe Kabbara]

This is why I think focusing and anchoring the progress of our pathway to net zero on something like electrification, which is now, as I mentioned, all about economics and sovereignty, will definitely be more durable across political stripes.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Kabbara, your organization emphasizes the need for an integrated, economically viable, socially acceptable and credible approach with a clear and predictable plan, as well as strong coordination among stakeholders. I don't think that's consistent with fluctuating climate goals, but I want to go further with you on that.

I'd like to know whether the federal government's current path is consistent with this approach, particularly when it comes to its intention to build new pipelines with Alberta, further develop the oil sands and increase oil production and export.

Is this part of an economically viable, socially acceptable and credible approach that will enable us to achieve our 2050 objectives?

[Moe Kabbara]

I think global oil demand is uncertain. As I mentioned, it is evolving very quickly. We're seeing what's happening in Asia. We're seeing what's happening in some of the developing countries. When I look at Ethiopia and see that six out of 10 vehicles sold there are EVs—

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

I have 30 seconds left, so I'll clarify my question.

Do you think increasing oil sands production is part of the transition?

[Moe Kabbara]

I believe electrification will be the main pathway that will transition our economy towards net zero.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Kabbara.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Garon.

We will continue now with Mr. McLean for five minutes.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Welcome, witnesses.

My first question is for you, Mr. Dubey. Welcome. It's nice to see you.

You have a technology that will reprocess waste and bring us more revenue from waste oil, which we can collect revenue from. Thank you very much for looking for the low-hanging fruit that makes a lot of sense in the Canadian economy. You're going to get titanium, zircon and rare earth elements, all of which are in strong demand in the country right now. You're also potentially going to get some methane reductions across the economy.

It sounds like a win-win-win with regard to the environment, meeting the market and getting some economic returns. Can you tell me what's holding back investors in this scenario?

[Akshay Dubey]

There are probably two big challenges, which I highlighted in my initial statement. One is the adoption by industry. The Canadian oil sands industry over the past decade has been not as forthcoming when it comes to innovation and deploying new technology. Part of it is that they've gone into an environment where the regulation has evolved. They've been thinking about where to spend investment dollars. I'd say there is an industrial side of things.

On the incentives, I believe, again, there have been some changes in regulation, including with the carbon tax regime. That has evolved over the last couple of weeks. We've had a new announcement with Alberta. That's now provided a bit more direction in terms of where things are going. the stability of the investment environment, first and foremost, will be important for the oil sands to implement these technologies.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

You mentioned getting some potential money because of the announcement of the Canada strong fund. Is it your opinion that the Canada strong fund will give you below-market capital?

[Akshay Dubey]

We don't have a strong opinion yet. The fund has just been announced. We have looked at some of the other funding agencies that are already out there, like the strategic innovation fund and the Canada Growth Fund. I'd say the challenge we've faced when speaking to these government financing agencies has generally been that they need a fully financeable project right at the finish line before they'll get involved.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

The end result is that unless something provides a bit of a subsidy in the financing mechanism—which isn't being met by the market right now—that's where it's going to land for you, but the funds that are looking for market returns already exist. Is that correct?

[Akshay Dubey]

I believe so.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thank you.

I'll move my questions now to Mr. Kabbara.

Mr. Kabbara, you talk about how we're on the right path with the electricity strategy. I noted that. However, I'm a realistic skeptic, and you won't mind my saying that, because quite frankly, you've been at it since 2019, and I haven't seen results around the world.

It seems like we're increasing emissions with the strategy. We're less sustainable as far as our electricity system goes. We're importing electricity now. We're unreliable, so we don't have electricity at key points, including points when it's too cold or too hot and we actually need electricity.

At what point in time are you going to indicate that maybe Canadians have to spend a lot more money on electricity? You talked about ratepayers versus taxpayers. With the two combined, it's going to cost a lot more, and that will more or less drive us out of being in a competitive position in the world as far as our electricity provision goes.

[Moe Kabbara]

I don't think I understand the question. I guess if you're saying that we have not necessarily—

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Let me restate it, then. Your policies are going to make electricity more expensive and less reliable. How is that good for Canada?

[Moe Kabbara]

Excuse me, but what policies are you referring to?

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

I mean your policies about greening everything and the transition economy. I noticed how much you've been gifted by the federal government to get us through this policy equation. So far, you've led us down a black hole, if you don't mind my calling it that, because electricity is more expensive for Canadians. There are a whole bunch of electricity costs being buried in taxpayer subsidies, and effectively, we are unreliable now. We have to import electricity because of the policies we've pursued over the last 10 years.

Can you comment on that at all? How do you not think this is an absolute failure as far as a policy for a country goes?

[Moe Kabbara]

What I'm referring to here is the most recent policy, which also indicated, for example, the revisiting of the clean electricity regulations, which we have been supportive of revisiting because we believe in conserving affordability and reliability. We have worked with folks from the Alberta Electric System Operator and Nova Scotia Power, acknowledging that baseload power and basically managing the grid require more flexibility, instead of just trying to get to a perfectly clean grid. What I actually wrote—

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Kabbara. We'll have to end it there.

We'll continue now with Mr. Leitão for five minutes.