Finance Committee on June 4th, 2026

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Let me quote a former PBO, because I think this is important for Canadians: “The hard target of a balanced operating budget in 2028-29 will put more constraints on the government than would fiscal rules tied to changes in the size of the economy”. That's from Kevin Page, who's saying that our fiscal anchors are solid.

As I've said with respect to the Canada strong fund, my colleague is focusing on the cost, but she's not telling Canadians the benefits they will derive from them. The Government of Canada can borrow at one of the lowest rates—

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Minister, my question was very clear. It was about the cost of the bureaucracy. It was just the number.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Madam Chair, again, the member should also say to Canadians that if you look at the cost of borrowing for the Government of Canada, we're one of the lowest in the G7, which allows us to borrow at very favourable rates in order to invest.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Minister, you're the Minister of Finance. We're the finance committee. We expect numbers to be discussed. I asked about the cost of the bureaucracy. You're not giving it to me.

What will the cost be for the executive salaries?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Again, I think Canadians want to hear about the benefits of the Canada strong fund. I provide some perspective to Canadians in saying that Canada can borrow at one of the lowest costs in the G7. We'll invest in Canadian companies and projects of national interest.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

In this morning's report, we have now heard that interest costs will, in fact, probably go up.

The PBO report also noted that government operational costs were actually revised upwards another $18 billion, up to $142 billion. Were the interest payments for the sovereign wealth fund factored into your government's operational expenditures?

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Ms. Cobena. That concludes your time.

We will continue now with Mr. Sawatzky for five minutes.

[Jake Sawatzky, Liberal, New Westminster—Burnaby—Maillardville, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here today. It's good to see you again.

I agree with your opening statements. We are facing major economic headwinds, of course, with high energy prices, being uniquely affected by U.S. tariffs and global uncertainty. However, we have a resilient country and resilient people. We're taking decisive action to build our economy and to also help protect our people because, of course, there are a lot of Canadians who are feeling the pressure right now.

People in my riding have spoken to me about the difficulty with the disability tax credit. The application process can be lengthy and difficult. It's an important source of support for many Canadians. It helps people access their disability benefits.

Can you tell me and this committee how the new measures in Bill C-30 will make it easier for eligible Canadians to access the disability tax credit and the supports that will come with it?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

First of all, I want to applaud your leadership and your work at the committee. I'm glad to see you at the committee.

I'll go to the macro and then I'll come to your question. You're quite right: What we're seeing, coming back from G7 and G20 meetings, is that the speed, scope and scale of change is quite unprecedented—geopolitics, geo-economics, supply chains, AI, quantum and cyber—and because all of these things are happening, it is giving many of us a feeling of a loss of control. As I said, even with what's happening in the Strait of Hormuz, you're seeing how this is translating into affordability issues in pretty much every country.

The fact is that the Conservatives have not yet been able to understand that Canada is not immune to these global issues, as with every other country—the tariff situation, the Strait of Hormuz, the price of oil—so what we've done.... We're very mindful that if you go out and talk to Canadians—as I know you do—as I do, what's top of mind for them is affordability. It's the price of rent. It's the price of gas. It's the price of food, so we've been acting on these three vectors

At the same time, with respect to the disability tax credit—and I want to again thank the chair because she's played a lead role in making sure that the government would do what's right—we have taken a number of measures to modernize the way the credit is administered. We have extended the benefit and are making sure that we take less time away from general practitioners, who were spending time on filling out forms. I'm sure our colleague Ms. Martin would have a view on that.

We have made it easier, and we have made it broader, certainly, for the category of people we cover—and I think it's just very much in line with our Canadian values. Those are some of the people who deserve all of our attention. I want to thank them. I want to thank them for their submissions. We listened, and we acted. I want to praise the chair in particular, and other members of the committee, who have been really stellar leaders, along with my parliamentary secretary—because Parliament Secretary Turnbull has been a key advocate as well—in making sure that we do the right thing.

[Jake Sawatzky, Liberal, New Westminster—Burnaby—Maillardville, BC]

Thank you.

Seven FIFA World Cup matches are taking place in Vancouver, British Columbia. Canada has the opportunity to showcase its breweries, distilleries, wineries and other local businesses to a national and international audience.

The spring economic update saw our government extend excise duty relief measures, including the 2% cap on annual increases and the continuation of targeted tax reductions for small brewers. This amounts to over $30 million in support.

Can you explain how these measures will help Canadian producers?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

First, thank you for the question.

I think that this is one measure that should receive unanimous support. I'm looking at my Bloc Québécois colleagues, and I see a smile. I'm looking at my Conservative colleagues, and I'm trying to see a smile. I'm looking at my colleagues on the Liberal side, and I see a big smile.

I think that we're all here to support the small brewers—the microbreweries, as we call them back home—found in just about every region of the country, if not in a number of regions of the country. This measure was absolutely necessary. You're right. We're headed for a summer full of sports activities with the FIFA World Cup. There will be plenty of occasions to celebrate.

I think that this also shows the need to support regional economic development. These microbreweries are often located in smaller communities, in our area and in other places. Certainly, it's good to be able to give them a helping hand.

The chair is telling me that I need to wrap up now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Sawatzky.

We're going to continue, now, with five minutes for Mr. Kelly.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Crowfoot, AB]

Thank you.

Minister, just this morning, the CFIB testified that their members—hundreds of thousands of workers and businesses—are calling upon the government to have a time frame and to lay out a plan for a balanced budget.

I've asked you this question literally dozens of times at this committee and at the committee of the whole. I asked you this last week at the committee of the whole. You refused to answer the question. I really hope today might finally be the day you can tell Canadians—because they're demanding this—in what year your government will balance the budget.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Let me talk a bit, first, about the CFIB. I saw them. I want to thank them for their important work. We work very well with Dan Kelly and his team.

I've answered that question. Canada has the strongest fiscal position in the G7. I think Canadians will be pleased to hear that, yesterday, the OECD said that we'll have the second-fastest growth in the G7. I can quote the numbers, if you want. That might be helpful.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Crowfoot, AB]

No. If you're, again, not going to answer the question, we'll move on to another question. You still refuse, despite being the Minister of Finance, who ought to have some kind of plan.

This was a promise. You ran in 2015. You promised a balanced budget following a generational investment in infrastructure. The investment didn't happen. The infrastructure didn't get built. Ten years later, you promised the same thing. You didn't deliver. You didn't balance the budget, and you refuse to even respond to any questions about a balanced budget.

Let me bring to your attention this morning's PBO report. We just got this. It was tabled just before you arrived here. I haven't had a chance to read the whole thing, but I got to page 13, where the PBO says, “we estimate that the likelihood that the deficit-to-GDP ratio will decline in every year over 2026-27 to 2030-31 is less than 1 per cent.”

Minister, you have cut loose every fiscal anchor your government has ever given itself, and now the PBO says that you have a 1% chance of meeting your new fiscal anchor. What credibility do you think you have on any fiscal matter?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

This is a serious moment. I think Canadians understand that. That's why we need to focus on facts and figures. That's why, as I said—

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Crowfoot, AB]

It's in the report.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

As I was trying to explain.... The Canadians who are watching understand the dynamic in this committee this morning. They want to know the Canadian economy is resilient. We have seen an increase in business investment in machinery and equipment, an increase in business investment in intellectual property and a decrease in government spending.

The International Monetary Fund doesn't need a clip like my colleague does. They said that Canada has the strongest fiscal position in the G7. The OECD, which is also an international body, just said that we will have the second-fastest growth in the G7. Those are the facts. Those are the numbers, Madam Chair.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Crowfoot, AB]

Minister, you made an opening statement, where you could run down your clock. I'd like you to actually answer a question. You did not answer my question about credibility in terms of your fiscal anchor, which was challenged quite vigorously this morning by the PBO.

The PBO says that there is less than a 1% chance that “the deficit-to-GDP ratio will decline”. Do you agree with the PBO's assessment, yes or no?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Canadians are very smart. They understand that we're facing one of the most uncertain periods since, probably, the Second World War and that the world is complex and volatile. Despite all that, Canada's growth—

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Crowfoot, AB]

You had a chance to make an opening statement. Now you're here to answer questions.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

—has been assessed by an international agency as being the second-fastest in the G7.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Crowfoot, AB]

No, you're here to answer questions. You can say whatever you like in your opening statement.

Why do you refuse to answer questions put to you by parliamentarians? Parliamentarians are elected to question ministers and hold them to account. Why do you hold them in such contempt?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Madam Chair, I've answered all the questions. That's a subjective comment by the member. He may not like my answer because the Conservatives don't really like it when we present facts. That's the problem. I've seen that over a decade, and—

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Crowfoot, AB]

I asked you if you agree with the PBO, yes or no.