Finance Committee on June 4th, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Good morning. I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 44 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance. Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application.

Before we begin, I would like to remind participants of the following points. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. For those participating via video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic and please mute yourself when you are not speaking.

I would like to remind witnesses that committee members may ask questions in English or in French. If you need interpretation, please put your earpiece on and select the appropriate channel so that we can use the time allocated to us. I will remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Tuesday, May 26, 2026, and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, May 7, 2026, the committee resumes its consideration of Bill C-30, an act to implement certain provisions of the spring economic update tabled in Parliament on April 28, 2026.

I would now like to take a moment to welcome our witnesses. From the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, we have Jasmin Guénette, vice-president, national affairs. From the Intentional Community Consortium, we have Gary Gladstone, chair. From the International Union of Operating Engineers, we have Steven Schumann, Canadian government affairs director.

With that, you will each have five minutes for opening remarks.

We will begin with you, Mr. Guénette.

[Jasmin Guénette, Vice-President, National Affairs, Canadian Federation of Independent Business]

Thank you.

Good morning, Chair, and members of the committee.

Thank you for kindly inviting me to participate in today's meeting.

The Canadian Federation of Independent Business, or CFIB, represents more than 103,000 small and medium-sized businesses in every sector of the economy across the country.

I am pleased to be able to share our observations further to the 2026 spring economic update.

There were some positive measures in the spring economic update that CFIB welcomed. Most notably, the reduction in CPP premiums paid by employers and employees is a step in the right direction to reduce payroll taxes. This will put money back into the pockets of employees and the payroll budgets of employers.

We also welcomed the government's effort to strengthen apprenticeship supports in the skilled trades. This can help smaller firms address the ongoing labour shortage. As long as the paperwork is light, this new grant for employers could be a welcomed boost.

Finally, CFIB was pleased to see the employee ownership trusts tax exemption made permanent, providing entrepreneurs with greater flexibility and more options for succession.

While these were positive steps, they are not sufficient on their own to address the broader structural challenges facing small businesses or to reverse Canada's growing entrepreneurial drought.

Canada is facing a serious entrepreneurship problem. To give you an example, we have seen more businesses closing than opening in the agriculture sector for 11 straight quarters. We have seen more business closures than new ones created for eight consecutive quarters in retail and for 12 consecutive quarters in wholesale. We are losing more businesses than we see new ones created in many sectors, yet the economic update did not address that.

CFIB data shows that 55% of current small business owners would not recommend starting a business today. That should concern every policy-maker in this room.

It's also important to mention that the spring economic update did not lay out a real plan to go back to an overall balanced budget. CFIB members are concerned about the size of the debt and deficit.

In conclusion, I will say that optimism among small and medium-sized business owners is weak, costs are high, and the regulatory environment is too complex and restrictive.

The current government is focused on building so-called national interest projects and developing non-U.S. markets. While most CFIB members are not opposed to these initiatives, they feel that measures are also urgently needed to address the entrepreneurial drought.

CFIB recommends reducing the small business tax rate from 9% to 6% and increasing the small business deduction threshold from $500,000 to $700,000.

The government should also cut red tape and the administrative burden for all businesses, whether part of a major national project or not.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak to the committee today. I would be happy to answer any questions you have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Guénette.

We'll continue now with Mr. Gladstone from the Intentional Community Consortium.

You have five minutes.

[Gary Gladstone, Chair, Intentional Community Consortium]

Good morning, Madam Chair and members of the committee. Thank you for the invitation to appear.

My name is Gary Gladstone, and I am chair of the Intentional Community Consortium, or ICC.

The ICC is a national coalition of more than 80 non-profit organizations working to expand affordable, accessible and supportive housing for people with intellectual and developmental disabilities across Canada. I am also the lead of stakeholder relations for Reena, one of Ontario's largest developmental service organizations and a provider of supportive housing.

I'm here today because as Parliament considers Bill C-30 and the future of Canada's housing investments, there's one population that cannot be overlooked: people with developmental disabilities.

For many Canadians, the housing crisis means rising rents or difficulty entering the housing market. For people with developmental disabilities, the housing crisis often means something much more severe. It means remaining on wait-lists for years. It means living with aging parents who worry every day about what will happen when they can no longer provide care. It means remaining in hospitals, long-term care facilities, shelters or inappropriate settings simply because suitable housing does not exist.

In Ontario alone, more than 24,000 people are waiting for developmental services and housing supports. Research has also shown that more than 18% of people in homeless shelters have a diagnosed or undiagnosed developmental disability.

The federal government recognized this need under the national housing strategy—thank you—and after sustained advocacy by organizations, including the ICC and our members, a special carve-out in the original national housing strategy was made to create 2,400 housing units for this population.

Unfortunately, fewer than 900 units have been delivered. The challenge is not a lack of demand, it is not a lack of projects and it's certainly not a lack of willing non-profit partners. The challenge is that many community-based organizations lack the capacity and resources needed to navigate complex federal housing programs despite having land, expertise, community support and shovel-ready projects.

That is why we are recommending that people with developmental disabilities remain an explicit priority within the national housing strategy 2.0 and Build Canada Homes.

As in my written brief, we are also recommending a dedicated federal investment of at least $1 billion over five years to support the creation, preservation and acquisition of 3,000 additional affordable, accessible and supportive homes by 2031; support for portfolio-based delivery models through organizations such as ICC that can coordinate national pipelines of shovel-ready projects and build the capacity of smaller non-profit providers; predictable operating and housing benefit supports; and clear accessibility, care occupancy and B3 fire code standards to ensure that the housing being built is not only affordable but is also safe, appropriate and truly accessible for people with developmental disabilities.

These recommendations are not simply social policy; they are sound economic policy.

On Monday, I attended the launch of the public housing dividend study conducted by the Canadian Centre for Economic Analysis for the GTHA Community Housing Collaborative. The study found that every dollar invested in public housing generates $2.80 in combined economic and social benefits. It projects that strategic housing investments can create more than $100 billion in value, generate 15,000 jobs annually, house 86,000 additional people and prevent more than 524,000 hospital days.

These findings reinforce what our sector sees every day. Supportive housing reduces pressure on hospitals, emergency rooms, shelters, policing and long-term care. Supportive housing strengthens families, creates jobs and, most importantly, changes lives.

At Reena, we recently opened the Tansley residence, providing homes for individuals who have been living in hospitals because no appropriate housing existed. This fall, the Frankfort family Reena residence will open in Toronto, providing affordable, accessible housing for 168 tenants through a partnership involving all levels of government.

Across Canada, ICC members are developing similar projects using modular construction, mass timber construction, universal design principles and innovative partnership models. The projects exist, the expertise exists and the need certainly exists. What we need is a federal commitment that ensures people with developmental disabilities are not left behind as Canada builds its next generation of housing.

I respectfully ask the committee to support the recommendations outlined in my pre-budget submission and ensure that national housing strategy 2.0 includes dedicated funding and clear priorities for affordable, accessible and supportive housing for people with developmental disabilities.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you very much, Mr. Gladstone.

We'll now continue with Mr. Schumann from the International Union of Operating Engineers.

You have five minutes.

[Steven Schumann, Canadian Government Affairs Director, International Union of Operating Engineers]

Good morning.

On behalf of the International Union of Operating Engineers, or IUOE, I'm honoured to appear before the committee today.

The IUOE represents nearly 60,000 members across Canada who build and maintain the infrastructure that holds this country together. Our members are usually the first on the job site and the last to leave, and they continually work themselves out of work. Our members operate cranes and heavy equipment, work as mechanics and apprentices and show up every day on the construction sites, energy projects and infrastructure builds that keep Canada moving.

Across the country, our local unions also operate a national network of not-for-profit, state-of-the-art union training centres that deliver accredited, industry-leading programs for the next generation of skilled workers. Apprentices trained at union facilities have a much higher completion and succession rate than those who do not go through a union training centre, at about 90% versus under 50%.

We are here today to express our strong support for the 2026 spring economic update, in particular those measures directed at skilled trades and apprenticeships. The proposed expansion of the union training and innovation program is an initiative our organization strongly supports and believes is critical to building Canada's training capacity for skilled trades. Union-run training centres are the backbone of skilled trades training in this country. Enabling them to upgrade facilities, expand capacity and invest in modern equipment is an investment in the future of Canada's skilled trades workforce.

The team Canada strong initiative is a serious and well-resourced plan to recruit, train and place up to 100,000 new Red Seal trade workers by 2030. The government's investment in support of training and apprenticeships is the kind of on-ramp that the trades have needed for a long time. Combined with the build Canada apprenticeship service and up to $10,000 in wage subsidies for employers hiring first-year apprentices, these measures create real incentives for growing Canada's skilled trade workforce.

We're also pleased to see the apprenticeship training grant, which will provide apprentices with a $400 weekly top-up during mandatory technical training. Apprentices have long faced income gaps when they move between the job site and the classroom. This grant addresses that directly. The $5,000 completion bonus upon the Red Seal certification is equally significant. Completion rates have always been a challenge in the trades, and financial support tied to the finish line is a practical and effective way to change that.

Finally, we also support the modernization of the Red Seal program. Online exams, digital logbooks and a single, national, registered apprenticeship number are long overdue. These changes reduce unnecessary delays and improve consistency across jurisdictions. They make it easier for Canadians to enter the workforce and move within it.

This legislation also proposes improvements to the labour mobility tax deduction for eligible tradespeople by increasing the annual limit on deductible expenses and reducing the distance threshold for eligibility. Our members regularly travel significant distances to job sites as that is the nature of their work in the skilled trades. A deduction that better reflects the real cost of that mobility is a meaningful and necessary adjustment. We are pleased to see those proposed changes.

Taken together, this represents the most significant federal investment in skilled trades and apprenticeship training in a generation. These measures give Canadian workers the tools they need to continue to build Canada's infrastructure and, most importantly, provide for their families.

I am happy to take any questions, and I thank you for your time today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you very much, Mr. Schumann.

We will begin with Ms. Cobena for six minutes, please.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Good morning to all our witnesses, and thank you for your remarks this morning. If I may, I will start with Mr. Guénette.

I was surprised by your opening statement, because we know that there have been more business closures than openings in three out of the last four quarters, but you gave some even more alarming stats: Within the agriculture sector, this has been happening for 11 quarters. Within the retail sector, it has been eight quarters. Within the wholesale sector, it has been 12 quarters.

How would you, then, describe the overall state of entrepreneurship here in Canada?

[Jasmin Guénette]

We call it the entrepreneurial drought. We are losing entrepreneurs in the vast majority of sectors. It is not what we saw in the past. If we look back to the eighties, Canada, generally speaking, always created more businesses than there were business closures. This was the natural general trend. Canada is a land of entrepreneurship, but unfortunately, in the last few years, we have not seen that in many sectors.

I have brought with me a list of all sectors that have been touched by the entrepreneurial drought. Agriculture is one of the hardest-hit sectors. Retail, wholesale, construction, transportation—there are many sectors in Canada where we are seeing more business closures than openings. It's not just the last quarter. It goes back many quarters. This is not CFIB data. This is StatsCan data. We hope to see public policy implemented to reverse that trend.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you.

Of course we want the economy to grow and to address this productivity issue, but it is a big issue when Canadian entrepreneurs are choosing not to start, expand or invest in their businesses locally. What would you say is the biggest domestic policy failure that's driving this entrepreneurial drought?

[Jasmin Guénette]

For CFIB, the two main policy buckets that really need to be modernized and reformed are our fiscal policy on the one hand, and the regulatory environment on the other hand. When we ask our members what the most burdensome policies are that prevent them from growing and developing their businesses, fiscal and regulatory policies often come first. That's why we make recommendations to reduce the fiscal and regulatory burdens on small businesses.

[Sandra Cobena, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you.

I'd like to split my time with the MP for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan.

Thank you.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I'll continue with the CFIB. We have a serious youth unemployment crisis in this country that we have been highlighting and calling for action on. The CFIB recently put out an excellent report, “Work in Progress: Bridging the Gap Between Small Businesses and Canada's Youth”. It reflects many of the things I've been hearing when talking to business owners as well as young people. It demonstrates a mismatch or disconnect that's leading to a lot of frustration on both sides. I would just encourage this committee's members to familiarize themselves with that report. I think there's a lot of good information to consider in the preparation for the next budget.

In particular, I want to ask you to follow up on a couple of points. You note how the challenges businesses are facing—weak demand, rising payroll, wage costs, limited capacity to absorb training costs—obviously have implications for the ability of small businesses to hire young people. Then you also talk about what we can do about it. It seems that often, when it comes to youth unemployment, the emphasis on the government side is to talk about programming.

You identify the fact that, “Existing government supports for small businesses to hire youth are often overly complex and administratively burdensome”. What you're proposing instead is broad-based efforts to reduce the cost of hiring, things like a temporary EI premium relief and training supports that would make it easier to train young people.

Can you speak a little more about your recommendations for how government policy can make it easier for small businesses to hire young people, especially for their first jobs?

[Jasmin Guénette]

Thank you for your kind words about the report. The report showed that there's a mismatch between youth and SMEs, very often, when it comes to employment. SMEs hire mostly through their own networks, while youth are looking online, so they're not necessarily finding each other. There's often a salary mismatch between the expectations of the youth and what SMEs can afford.

Our report highlighted the Canada summer jobs program as a red tape example. For example, we say that it's rigid and has poorly timed deadlines. For example, business have to make a decision on their hire in December for the next summer's openings. Often, businesses don't really know what their plan is, in December, for the next summer. To boost youth hiring, we are recommending introducing targeted tax relief and targeted tax credits. We recommend putting in place EI reductions to hire youth. That would boost employment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

I apologize, Mr. Guénette, but that concludes the time we have. Thank you, Mr. Guénette.

We're going to continue now with Mr. MacDonald for six minutes.

[Kent MacDonald, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Good morning, Madam Chair.

Good morning to the witnesses.

My first question is for Mr. Guénette. I'm somebody who worked in the agricultural field for almost 40 years, running a business, so I can understand first-hand the challenges involved in passing that business on to the next generation. I went through that process. The business that I was involved in is operated by my son now.

In Bill C-30, we've introduced the $10-million capital gains exemption for employee ownership trusts and worker co-operatives. I think this is a real positive move to allow business owners who reach retirement an opportunity to have that business continue in a small rural community and keep contributing to the community rather than closing.

You outlined in your opening remarks the number of businesses that are closing. Are there lessons to be learned from this measure, which may work for family transfers as well?

In my situation, the $1.25-million capital gains exemption is not adequate to offset capital-intensive industries like agriculture, fishing enterprises or other small family businesses. They're worth a lot more money than they were in the past. Can you speak to that?

[Jasmin Guénette]

As I said in my opening remarks, CFIB was pleased to see the employee ownership trust tax exemption made permanent. This is one of the tools that businesses can use to pass on their business when they are ready to exit. Right now, the tax exemption is at $10 million and it can be matched with the LCGE, so it's a good measure. We are calling for it to be made permanent prior to the spring economic update. It is one of the tools that businesses can use to sell their company, whether it's in agriculture or in other sectors. It's a way also that maybe companies can stay within the community, and not be sold to hedge funds or other types of investment funds. We supported that initiative. We hope that business owners will be made aware of it, and we hope that it will be used.

We did a report not too long ago showing that within the next 10 years, about 70% of business owners will exit their enterprise, so we need to have good public policies to ensure that we are successful in this massive wealth transfer that is coming in Canada.

[Kent MacDonald, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you.

The other issue that I run into a lot in rural Canada is the shortage of labour. Nationally, we have changed the rules in immigration and the LMIA program is a little tighter with a one-year renewal required. When you talk to your membership, I'm sure you're getting the same comments that there's a shortage of labour, and the application for temporary foreign workers has become more complicated, more regulatory in nature and more of a persistent obstacle to small business owners. I hear that all the time, so I just wondered if you could comment on that.

[Jasmin Guénette]

We are suggesting a few measures to support hiring. First, we are calling for the government to increase the age exemption amount and the CPP basic exemption amount. We are recommending a few policies to help experienced workers stay in the labour market.

As I mentioned earlier, we support the hiring of youth by introducing targeted tax credits and deductions on premiums holidays, and by making changes to the Canada summer jobs program. Also, where needed, we are calling to preserve the TFW program so that businesses that cannot find workers locally can go through this program, especially in some sectors in rural communities.

[Kent MacDonald, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Maybe I can get my next question in. It's for Mr. Schumann with the operating engineers.

Mr. Schumann, we've put a lot of measures in Bill C-30. There's the labour mobility deduction, as well as the apprenticeship training. Can you think of any other measures that might be required to keep the workforce mobile enough to address all these infrastructure projects and the very ambitious schedule that we have going forward?

[Steven Schumann]

Obviously, the Red Seal is recognized throughout Canada. If you're a crane operator with a Red Seal, you can easily travel anywhere in Canada to work. It's the same for a heavy equipment operator. There are various Red Seals in the various trades.

One thing the government could do is to take a leadership role and try to promote and create more Red Seals in the trades. You obviously need provincial buy-in, I believe four or five provinces need to all have buy-in to create a Red Seal for a program. I think that if the federal government took leadership on that and pushed for more Red Seals, you would easily have much more mobility throughout Canada.

Our members don't mind travelling. As you probably know, half—

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Schumann. We're going to have to end it there.

Thank you, Mr. MacDonald.

I'll continue now with Mr. Garon for six minutes.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here to help us with our study of Bill C‑30.

I'm going to start with you, Mr. Guénette.

I'd like to hear your view on skills training. The government decided to invest in skills training through Bill C‑30. The measure is tax-based. It too has “Canada strong” in the title, but I always forget the names of all those “Canada strong” initiatives. The support it provides is tax-based.

In Quebec, jurisdiction over skills training has been wholly decentralized since 1997. It was given to Quebec. Sectoral tables, committees of labour market partners and so forth ensure alignment between skills training and business needs.

In your view, should federal funding for skills training go towards strengthening Quebec's system, which works well, instead of providing tax-based support, in the current context?

[Jasmin Guénette]

I think a lot of things need to be done to improve training in Canada and Quebec. The federal government needs to work with the provinces, Quebec and the others, to make sure that any funding available for training goes where it's needed. The more local the support, the more effective it is. Quebec's needs aren't necessarily the same as those in Alberta or other parts of the country. Support for training is already available through the employment insurance program.

Overall, CFIB members welcome support for training, but the federal government must work with its partners if those programs are to be successful. The provinces need to play a major role.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Guénette.

In your opening remarks, you mentioned a crisis of sorts, one that doesn't get a lot of media coverage or public attention. I'm talking about the business succession and entrepreneurship crisis. You said the government was prioritizing major projects. Under the current economic conditions, we've seen four or five quarters without growth. More than anything else, major projects are economic stimulus packages.

In light of that, do you think the government is neglecting long-term solutions, neglecting small and medium-sized businesses, which need to grow if they're ever going to become very large companies? Do you think the government is favouring national interest projects, which are more about keeping things afloat in the short term?

Would you say small and medium-sized businesses are being overlooked in all this?