Finance Committee on June 4th, 2026

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Crowfoot, AB]

You mentioned in your opening statement that your members are concerned about the government's overall spending: that it is running never-ending deficits and that it cut loose its fiscal anchors that are supposed to prevent it from excessive borrowing.

What do you make of this last budget that is...? Today we're talking about the next budget, but the last one contained just an enormous and unexpected jump in the level of borrowing and the level of deficit spending. It failed to deliver many of the commitments, or at least hints, that they made during the election campaign and before about reining in the size and scale of government.

What are your expectations, and what are some more concrete recommendations that you can make for this government for the next budget?

[Jasmin Guénette]

Our expectation is for government to introduce a timeline to balance the overall budget—not just one of the two budgets but the overall budget. This is our expectation. We are also recommending that government introduce a spending limit outside of a global crisis so that there is a mechanism in place to constrain spending. Every time we ask CFIB members a question, an overwhelming majority of them share their concern about the size of the debt and deficit.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Crowfoot, AB]

That's right, so a plan to actually balance the budget might be the starting point.

[Jasmin Guénette]

Yes. It's introducing a timeline to balance the overall budget, having a plan and communicating that plan to Canadians and to small business owners.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Crowfoot, AB]

I've asked the finance minister literally dozens of times to do that, and he has never actually answered that question. Perhaps we can put it to him later this morning.

A timeline for a balanced budget is what your members are calling for, and I agree with them. Are your members concerned that these incessant deficits just lead to higher taxes and choke out the private economy?

[Jasmin Guénette]

Yes. They are worried that today's deficits are tomorrow's taxes, and they believe that there should be additional efforts made to balance the overall budget and to create room for more business creation and entrepreneurship in Canada.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Crowfoot, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Kelly.

We will continue now with Mr. Sawatzky for five minutes.

[Jake Sawatzky, Liberal, New Westminster—Burnaby—Maillardville, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to all our witnesses for being here today.

My questions today are for Mr. Schumann with the International Union of Operating Engineers.

I was happy to hear in your opening remarks about the strong support for the spring economic update. You mentioned that it is “the most significant...investment in skilled trades...in a generation.” It's good to hear that feedback. I think it's an important time to invest in the skilled trades. Arguably, for a while, the skilled trades were not getting the support they needed. Now, with all of these large-scale projects, we need the workforce to build them, particularly by training up Canadians to do that, so I'm very happy to hear that.

I know the members in your union have helped build some of Canada's most significant nation-building projects in B.C., such as LNG Canada, Coastal GasLink and the Site C dam, among many other projects. The spring economic update had measures aimed at attracting investments and accelerating major projects. From the perspective of the union workers actually building these projects, how important is it to restore investor confidence to ensure that more projects move forward? What impact does that have on creating good-paying union jobs across Canada?

[Steven Schumann]

Obviously, first, the more you build, the better it is. There's the spinoff factor. The more hours you work, the more taxes go back in. It feeds the system back. Our members like to work. They don't care where the projects are. Like I said, we have a very mobile workforce. Obviously, the bigger the projects, the more work there is, and it provides a future.

I will say this. Our membership is generational. My former Canadian director comes from B.C. His sons are now the third generation. A colleague of mine is the fourth generation. Our members see the benefit. Hopefully, by building all these projects and getting investments in Canada, other Canadians will see this—those who may not know the union way and may not know the trades, and they may get involved in the trades. It is a great career. It is very lucrative. It has great pension and benefit plans. It is fantastic. Without us, the Canadian economy does not exist because we build everything.

Going back to your first point, investor confidence is essential. There are some major projects out there that can be built and will be built. There are some projects that should have been built and haven't been built. There needs to be stability not only in the economy but also in the workforce.

One thing I would suggest to the government is that if you're putting money into any projects, I would look at community benefit agreements or project labour agreements because they guarantee work. They also guarantee that disenfranchised minorities are all working on projects, so everyone can benefit.

[Jake Sawatzky, Liberal, New Westminster—Burnaby—Maillardville, BC]

Thank you.

My riding is New Westminster—Burnaby—Maillardville, which has a lot of union members and has many people working in the skilled trades. They understand the value of a good-paying union job and the opportunities that apprenticeship training can create.

With our government's investment in union training centres, apprenticeships, labour mobility and Red Seal certification, what changes are you expecting to see in the industry? How would these measures help unions recruit, train and retrain skilled workers for the future?

[Steven Schumann]

I can't stress enough how the money to UTIP, for the bricks and mortar, is going to be a game-changer. Right now—and I know I only speak for operating engineers—with all the trades, we are at capacity. We are turning people away at the door. We just don't have the size to train people. Now the opportunity to expand our training centres will be essential because we can get more people through the system to become apprentices and get them working.

One thing I mentioned was that, with operating engineers, if you want to become an apprentice, there's a 99% success rate. You will get a job, and you will work. For that small percentage who don't, the job is not for them. They leave. Again, compared to those who go through apprenticeship programs, non-union, you're looking at an under 50% success rate. If you want to be an apprentice in Canada in the trades, going through a union training centre is the way to go.

[Jake Sawatzky, Liberal, New Westminster—Burnaby—Maillardville, BC]

Thank you.

How important is it that young Canadians see a clear pathway from apprenticeship to Red Seal certification? You mentioned the apprenticeship training grants and the $5,000 completion bonus. Do you think our government's investments, specifically in unions, will help encourage more young people to pursue the skilled trades?

[Steven Schumann]

I hope so. I really do. I think there is some work to be done. There needs to be a promotion of the trades. The federal government could take a role in that. Obviously, we're doing it. Getting to the parents to get people into the trades is key. I will say—and Ms. Martin and I talked about this earlier—that we need more women in the trades. They are excellent tradespeople. It's just promotion.

Members of Parliament need to come to the training centres, as well, to see them. I know Ms. Gould has been at the one in Oakville a couple of times. I offer it to anyone here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Schumann.

We're going to have to end there. That concludes your time.

[Jake Sawatzky, Liberal, New Westminster—Burnaby—Maillardville, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Sawatzky.

Mr. Garon, you may go ahead for two and a half minutes.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm going to turn to you, Mr. Guénette.

As we know, the way the U.S. tariffs are calculated changed at the beginning of April, affecting nearly a quarter of Quebec's exports. A 25% tariff applies to just about any product containing the slightest bit of steel or aluminum.

Businesses in the furniture sector have started to close. Since your membership spans all sectors, I imagine you represent people in the furniture sector. The Saint-Michel sawmill, in Saint‑Michel‑des‑Saints, recently announced that it had sought creditor protection under the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act.

Given all that, the Bloc Québécois suggested the government put a temporary wage subsidy in place for businesses that had to eliminate shifts or temporarily lay off workers, as a result of the new tariff calculation. The idea is to maintain the employment relationship between businesses and workers with expertise. We recommended that for two reasons.

The first reason is to prevent a situation where other businesses come in and scoop up those temporarily laid-off employees because their expertise is hard to find. The second reason is the employment insurance, or EI, system, which is set up actuarially to break even every seven years.

There was the pandemic crisis, and now there's another crisis. Allowing the EI system to deal with it, instead of addressing it through a wage subsidy, means that both employee and employer premiums will eventually have to be raised.

Where, then, do you stand on the Bloc Québécois's proposal and the government's pledge in Bill C‑30 to create a wage subsidy so that the employment relationship can be maintained?

[Jasmin Guénette]

When we ask our members about the most damaging tariffs, they say steel products are the hardest hit, followed by aluminum products. Even though we don't necessarily represent big producers, the tariffs are very damaging to our members. They use steel and aluminum to make their products, so the tariffs are very damaging.

We appreciate the flexibility the EI work-sharing program provides. Under the program, the employment relationship can be maintained if the business has to cut workers' hours. We support the government's approach.

If the government does do more, it should start by improving the existing reimbursement process. It's very slow. It takes forever. People have to wait way too long to get the money back.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you, Mr. Guénette.

We're going to have to leave it there.

Thank you, Mr. Garon.

On behalf of the committee, I want to thank all the witnesses.

We're going to have a brief suspension while we turn things over for the Minister of Finance.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Colleagues, we will resume the meeting.

Now I would like to welcome our next witness, the Honourable François‑Philippe Champagne, Minister of Finance and National Revenue. Joining him are Maude Lavoie, assistant deputy minister, tax policy branch; and Evelyn Dancey, assistant deputy minister, economic, fiscal and intergovernmental policy branch.

Minister, you may go ahead with your opening remarks. You have five minutes.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Minister of Finance and National Revenue]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Colleagues, good morning. It's a pleasure to be with you today.

Thank you for inviting me to appear before the Standing Committee on Finance. I see that you've met with other witnesses. Thank you for the very important work you are doing.

Colleagues, to begin, I would like thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak about the spring economic update and Bill C-30, an act to implement certain provisions of the spring economic update, which, as you will know, was tabled in Parliament on April 28, 2026.

In April, I had the honour of presenting the spring economic update, which outlined our plan to empower Canadians across the country who are navigating a rapidly evolving and, let's admit it, challenging world driven by escalating conflicts and trade tensions abroad. Canada is not immune to these global challenges. In response, our government is looking towards and acting on what we can control: building a strong and resilient economy, diversifying our trade partners, restoring discipline in fiscal management and making life more affordable for Canadians.

It is my belief that Bill C-30 is essential to advancing this crucial work and to asserting greater control over a volatile geopolitical and economic environment. With that in mind, I'd like to speak to some of the key elements of the bill and urge you all to give it the serious, timely and non-partisan consideration it deserves. Canadians, after all, expect nothing less from us.

Yesterday, I appeared in front of the Senate finance committee, which has also started their prestudy. I want to thank them for their work.

Madam Chair, the 2026 spring economic update highlights the progress we've made and the important work still to do.

Our mission is to build Canada strong, while ensuring that progress and economic growth benefit all Canadians right across the country. That is why we gave Canadians the opportunity to help build the economy, by creating Canada's first national sovereign wealth fund; by opening up new opportunities for 80,000 to 100,000 of the country's youth so that they can help build the country, with the launch of the team Canada strong program; and by making historic investments in community safety, Canadian sport, which unites us, and small craft harbours.

All of these measures are part of our broad plan to seize the moment with ambition and purpose, and build a strong and resilient Canadian economy. The good news is that we're just getting started. As the main legislative vehicle arising from the spring economic update, Bill C-30 will play a key role in this process. I would say, members of this committee, that you have in your hands one of the key bills to implement this vision to support Canadians.

With my remaining time, I'd like to highlight some of the key measures contained in this important legislation.

First, in recognition of the sudden increases at the pump due to the war in the Middle East, Bill C-30 will temporarily suspend the federal fuel excise tax on gasoline and diesel across Canada, saving drivers 10¢ per litre on gas and four cents per litre on diesel from April 20, 2026, until and including September 7, 2026. It will also suspend the excise tax on aviation fuels for the same period. This will ensure that Canadians receive tangible, immediate affordability relief when they need it most.

Bill C-30 also proposes maintaining for an additional two years the 2% cap on the inflation adjustment for the excise tax for beer, spirits and wine. It also proposes to continue the temporary 50% reduction in excise duty rates on the first 15,000 hectolitres of beer brewed in Canada for an additional two years. Combined, these two measures would provide over $30 million of relief to the sector until 2028.

Madam Chair, housing affordability remains a challenge for many Canadians. That's why Bill C-30 will extend the grace period during which homeowners are not required to start repaying their own buyers' plan withdrawals from their RRSPs from two years to five years for participants making a first withdrawal between January 1, 2026, and December 31, 2028. This will provide up to $4,000 in relief per individual per year.

There's far more in Bill C-30. In conclusion, I would say to the members of the committee, let's seize the moment, let's be ambitious and, together, let's build Canada strong. Canadians expect nothing less from us.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Karina Gould]

Thank you very much, Minister.

We will begin with Mr. Hallan now for six minutes.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary East, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Minister, what is the definition of a recession?