Evidence of meeting #9 for Finance in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was clause.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Coulombe  Director General, Legislation, Sales Tax Division, Department of Finance

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Karina Gould

Good morning, everyone.

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number nine of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance.

I would like to welcome back our witnesses. We have most of the same witnesses from the CRA, the Department of Finance and the Privy Council Office as we had last week, so thank you for being with us again.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Thursday, June 12, 2025, and the motion adopted on September 22, 2025, the committee shall resume consideration of Bill C-4, an act respecting certain affordability measures for Canadians and another measure.

We were debating NDP-2.

Mr. Kelly, I'll start with you.

11 a.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Crowfoot, AB

With the meeting having been adjourned, I don't think anything had been moved.

I move:

That, with respect to the committee's clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-4:

(a) debate on each remaining clause, including any amendments or subamendments thereto, be limited to no more than five minutes per recognized party, after which the chair shall forthwith put every question necessary to dispose of the clause and any amendments or subamendments related thereto;

(b) no more than one subamendment shall be moved to any amendment, and once the chair has put the question on that subamendment, no further subamendments shall be received;

(c) once the time provided for debate on a clause has expired, any amendments, for which notice has been given but were not yet moved, shall be deemed to have been moved and the chair shall put every question necessary to dispose of the clause without further debate or amendment;

(d) the committee not adjourn until it has disposed of Bill C-4;

(e) should the clause-by-clause consideration not be completed within the time normally scheduled for the meeting, the committee seek the necessary resources to continue beyond its usual meeting hours until Bill C-4 is disposed of; and

(f) upon completion of clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-4, the committee's next meeting be held in its usual meeting hours for its study on tax havens.

I believe an embargoed copy of the motion was given to the clerk, so the clerk can distribute this to everyone. Is that correct?

The Clerk of the Committee Danielle Widmer

Yes.

11 a.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Crowfoot, AB

Thank you, Clerk.

The motion should be in the inboxes of members in both official languages.

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Karina Gould

Thank you, Mr. Kelly.

Members have not received it yet, so they're just working on this. While that is done—

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Crowfoot, AB

I still have the floor, though, so I would like to speak to the motion, if it is now moved.

The Chair Liberal Karina Gould

Okay. Please carry on.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Crowfoot, AB

This bill does contain affordability measures that are important to Canadians and that Conservatives support, so we would like to get this bill passed. We would like to go further with this bill. That is why we proposed reasonable amendments that would have made this bill go much further towards its stated objectives and provide more meaningful tax relief to Canadians and more meaningful affordability measures for new housing.

We saw from the previous meeting that members of the governing party do not appear ready to adopt these amendments. Nevertheless, we would like to see this bill progress. There is agreement from Conservatives to withdraw our amendments in order to make it easier for the passage of this bill, so that this committee can get on to other important business.

There will be other amendments. I'm not precluding—and there's nothing in this motion that would preclude—the other parties from moving their amendments. If they have amendments to move then we can debate them and move on.

This is a path forward, Chair, since at the last meeting the Liberals were filibustering their own bill, I guess out of fear of allowing any amendments to come to a vote. This is a path forward so that we don't have a repeat of that, where the Liberals would just filibuster their own bill.

Note though that this isn't going to adjourn. There is no consent from our side to adjourn this meeting if you have a speaker on the speakers list. What happened at the conclusion of the previous meeting was totally unacceptable, where the chair actually interrupted Mr. Turnbull in the middle of him asking the officials a question to gavel out the meeting. It was also while I was on the speakers list.

We can manage the timing of these meetings. It could well be that Mr. Turnbull was ready to end in order to facilitate a timely scheduled end of the meeting. It's quite likely that I was also prepared not to cause the meeting to go longer just to get my turn on the speaking order. To be clear, meetings can't be adjourned while a member is in the middle of speaking. If this motion is adopted then it couldn't be more clear.

We're going to pass Bill C-4 and move on to other committee business, if it is the will of this committee to pass this motion, which provides this committee with a path forward.

I think in future, too, the chair has the ability to meet with vice-chairs and others to negotiate or speak a little more informally about our work plan so that we don't have parties filibustering their own bills.

The Chair Liberal Karina Gould

Thank you, Mr. Kelly.

Mr. Turnbull.

Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON

Can we have a suspension to discuss this?

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Crowfoot, AB

We agree.

Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON

We'll come right back.

Thanks.

The Chair Liberal Karina Gould

We will suspend the meeting briefly.

Thank you.

The Chair Liberal Karina Gould

Members, we're returning.

Is there any further comment or debate on this?

Mr. Kelly.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Crowfoot, AB

Yes. I'm going to ask the committee for unanimous consent to delete the word “recognized” so, it's “five minutes per party”. Otherwise, the NDP would not be permitted to move and speak to the motion.

I ask for unanimous consent to delete the word “recognized”.

The Chair Liberal Karina Gould

Do we have unanimous consent to delete the word “recognized”?

Some hon. members

Agreed.

The Chair Liberal Karina Gould

(Amendment agreed to)

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Crowfoot, AB

I have nothing further to add to the debate on the motion.

The Chair Liberal Karina Gould

Can I put the question on the motion?

We have Mr. Turnbull.

Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON

Can I clarify that the Conservatives have retracted their amendments to the whole package?

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Crowfoot, AB

This is a tricky thing. It goes together, but yes, we will withdraw our amendments upon passage of this motion.

The Chair Liberal Karina Gould

Thank you.

Normally, once we get to them, you will withdraw them as we get there.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Crowfoot, AB

That's correct. You'll have to trust me on that, but yes, that's what we'll do. It's on the record.

The Chair Liberal Karina Gould

Is there any further debate on this?

Seeing none, do we have UC? Can we have a show of hands for moving this?

Seeing everyone is in favour, we will move forward with this.

(Motion as amended agreed to)

We'll go back to NDP-2.

Mr. Turnbull.