Last April?
Evidence of meeting #23 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was boat.
Evidence of meeting #23 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was boat.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
Fabian Manning Conservative Avalon, NL
I'm just trying to figure out for myself how much consultation is taking place, because these rules are going to have an economic impact.
Look, we all agree with safety. Nobody goes on the water unless.... It's the most dangerous job in the world, and we all want to be as safe as possible. But the new regulations coming in with regard to vessel stability will cost fishermen money in terms of boat upgrades to meet the stability requirements. I'm just trying to determine for myself how much consultation is taking place. I'm trying to get a view on that.
One of the concerns being raised is with regard to the effect of consolidation of licences. By addressing the safety concern and the stability concern, there's another concern, that eventually you're going to have the possibility of more people coming together on one boat, just in terms of free enterprise and the economic impact of your trying to extend your boat or get a new boat that's 80 feet long. An opportunity may arise where you'll be allowed to buddy up licences. There seems to be a concern in some parts of the industry in relation to that, especially when it comes to small boats under 35 feet, or under 34 feet 11 inches.
Are there any comments on that in relation to how that will be addressed? A lot of people in my home area, down in the southern Avalon, have a big issue with crew members. You just can't get them. The fellows have boats tied up. They're going out on one boat for four or five days and then coming back to take another boat because they can't buddy up at the present time.
Would that be a positive thing, from your point of view, being allowed to buddy up or to consolidate some of the licences, in relation to safety as much as economics?
11:45 a.m.
Town Councillor and Fisherman, Bonavista, As an Individual
I don't know whether that would be a good idea or not. As I said this morning, Bonavista was a community of 5,200 people, and now we're down to about 4,000. If you look at the crew issue, if John and I and this gentleman here buddy up, well, that's three crew members out on one.
Where do you draw the line, right? It could be good for some people. A family with three licences could combine their licences. To me, though, looking out there as a crew member.... As a skipper, you're no good if you haven't got a crew. You're eliminating the crew member, and that's what I don't like about it. You're putting people out of jobs.
I don't know about John or someone else.
11:50 a.m.
Fisherman, Cottlesville, As an Individual
I think we have to look at the stability issue. If we combine the crew and combine licences, that would probably give us enough fish to catch to build the type of vessel that would pass the stability test. The problem with that right now is that with the fish I have to catch, I can't go and build a vessel. With the fish I have to catch, I don't think I can have the type of vessel that would meet the standards. I haven't got the fish to catch.
Some way, if we're going to fish, there has to be enough fish there to build a vessel that meets the safety standards. How do you get it? There has to be a way.
11:50 a.m.
Fisherman, Twillingate, As an Individual
I think there should be a reduction in the fish harvesters out there, through a buyout or early retirement. The rest of the quota would go back into the system, where an individual could run his boat.
There are too many harvesters out there for the amount of fish out there.
11:50 a.m.
Town Councillor and Fisherman, Bonavista, As an Individual
Probably we should be looking at it this way: if John is willing to retire, the government should buy him out, take his quota, and put the quota into a pot; then all the other fishermen, like me and this gentleman here, could go in and get a piece of that.
Do you understand what I'm saying?
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Fabian Manning Conservative Avalon, NL
Yes, and it gets back to the situation that Mr. Matthews and Mr. Byrne raised earlier in relation to providing a vessel that's considered to be safe in the water, and then in a year's time looking for more quota to be able to pay for that vessel. That seems to be an issue.
I think I heard you say that you received a letter saying that you had to have a stability booklet within the year, and that you estimated it would cost $15,000 for your vessel. Do you know some of the things that you would have to do with your vessel to meet that requirement at the present time?
11:50 a.m.
Fisherman, Cottlesville, As an Individual
I may not have to touch one thing in this earthly world. The $15,000 is just a fee to get her on dry dock and get the marine architects to draw all the proper lines and do the actual tests. We're not talking any modifications. That's what it costs just to get the test done.
11:50 a.m.
Fisherman, Cottlesville, As an Individual
We haven't got into any modifications.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Fabian Manning Conservative Avalon, NL
If he comes back with a list that you need to fix things. That could add on another--
11:50 a.m.
Fisherman, Cottlesville, As an Individual
She might never pass. She may have to be scrapped. I don't know that.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gerald Keddy
Thank you, Mr. Manning.
There's time for a quick question, Mr. Lunney.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
I think I heard you say that your vessel was one of a whole group that were built in Nova Scotia. Probably you could test the group, if they're of a similar design and you can demonstrate there haven't been major modifications, and save you a whole lot of that cost. I think there's been some discussion about that.
Is that something that's been discussed as far as you're aware?
11:50 a.m.
Fisherman, Cottlesville, As an Individual
Well, there hasn't been any confrontation done. We were questioned, and no, we haven't been part of it. When the boat was built in the yard, they built what they call a basic model, the first boat put out, and that boat was tested. Then my boat basically is a sister ship.
Maybe they had 10 more sister ships--I don't know--but this particular boat hasn't got a stability booklet. The letter from DFO doesn't say the sister ship should have one or anything. It says that my boat has to have a stability booklet. And you're suggesting that if you tested certain models of boats and then each one did.... I think you're correct there. You could do it that way, but--
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
It might be a big help to someone like you if there was a whole group.
I have another comment. I want to go back over this. Someone made the comment--I believe it was you, Mr. Watkins--that you're willing to bet the majority of accidents in the past several years are newer-built vessels. Added height, I think, is the issue here.
In your opinion and experience, have there been instances of rollover or loss of life at sea related to these height conditions because of modifications with the restrictions on 35 feet and 65 feet, basically? Is it something that's being discussed at the grassroots levels you're referring to. Is one crew of fishermen saying, “We'd rather not go out on that boat; look at the height of that sucker?” Is this something that people are actually aware of at the grassroots level?
11:55 a.m.
Fisherman, Cottlesville, As an Individual
Oh yes, quite aware. You see those boats come off the shipyards, and they're new boats and they cost a lot of money. Actually they could probably build cheaper boats if they went with a longer length and wider. I don't know, but these are not cheap boats. They cost a lot of money--$1.5 million or $2 million, $2.5 million is the going price for a 65-footer today. And yet when they come off the dock, yes, learned and experienced fishermen look at them and say they want nothing to do with that one.
And you wonder how they pass stability tests. Or are they having stability tests?
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gerald Keddy
Thank you, Mr. Lunney.
I know some of our members will still have questions. Do we want to try a round in which, if someone has a question or two, they'll ask it? We'll try to keep them brief and give anyone a chance who hasn't asked a question to ask one.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL
I have just a quick question.
Ted, do you find that most of the consultations on these kinds of things occur in the fishing season or in the off-season?
11:55 a.m.
Fisherman, Cottlesville, As an Individual
Mostly in the fishing season, when we're busy flat out, you find out all those meetings are going ahead.