Evidence of meeting #35 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 39th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was inuit.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
I guess what I'm asking is, is there a commercial market in the United States despite the fact that there is an MMPA?
Researcher, Department of Environment, Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami
I can only assume there is. As ITK, we deal solely with national issues.
Director, Wildlife Department, Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated
I just want to try to answer Mr. Simms' question.
In regard to the United States, they allow their natives to hunt, but they don't allow them to sell it, only if it's within an art form. If it's a craft, they allow it.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
All right. That answers that question.
Let me go back to the ringed seal issue. Mr. Ningeocheak, you say there are two million ringed seals and 80,000 are harvested. Where do you get these numbers? Is this a number from DFO, or is it a number that your own association has on ringed seals?
Second Vice-President, Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated
I will let the director of harvesting wildlife respond to that, but personally, I would like to respond to it before he does.
Numbers mean a great deal to the other cultures. On the question of where the numbers are extracted from, I will let Mr. Nirlungayuq speak to that.
Director, Wildlife Department, Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated
Thank you for that question. Those are from within the North Atlantic Marine Mammal Commission council. We got that from the reports of their scientific committee. However, those numbers that have been exported are much lower than before the anti-fur movement affected the exportation.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
You mentioned, sir, that you're noticing a difference in the icefields. I think one of the things you said was that ice formations are changing. Is there a noticeable difference in the reduction of seals as a result of ice formations changing recently?
Second Vice-President, Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated
When I talk about the arctic climate and how it's changing, I also need to mention that the Nunavut area, or the north, the Arctic, is a very vast and immense geographical area. Traditionally, it has always been that it becomes ice-free in Rankin Inlet, in Hudson's Bay, two weeks before the Clyde River has open water.
I spoke to a good friend of mine this spring when I was living in Rankin Inlet. We had been ice-free and out boating for two weeks when I spoke to him in Clyde River, and he told me, at the same time, that the ice hadn't broken. He was living in the North Baffin area and I live in the Hudson's Bay coastal area north of Churchill. When I'm out boating, he's still out ski-dooing on the ice on the Clyde River. We are talking about the same region, the same area, of Nunavut.
I also need to mention that in North Baffin the winters will last longer than they do in the Keewatin area, so there is that difference also. Not only are we talking about climate change, we're talking about seasons that are coming later or earlier because of the location we are situated in within Nunavut.
I also want to mention the snow melt. We know that snow melts faster when you are in the mainland area, but snow doesn't melt as fast when you live in a coastal area. As you move further up north, it doesn't melt as fast as it does in the southern parts of Nunavut.
So when there is a time lapse there of two weeks, the seals will migrate up north so they can go on the ice floes to bask in the sun. So there is that movement that's dictated by the seasons too.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gerald Keddy
Thank you.
To follow up on Mr. Simms' question, for a point of clarification from our witnesses, the question was, are you seeing a diminishing herd? Are there actually fewer seals because of climate change?
What has happened in the south is that we still have just as many seals, if not more. They're simply having their pups on the beaches, on the ledges, and on the little rocky islands instead of on the ice.
Researcher, Department of Environment, Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami
I will point out that in Mr. Ningeocheak's presentation he did address this. He said with how much climate change is affecting the north...he did notice that the seal populations are adapting as well.
He did mention that he is seeing seal populations in different areas. Nobody has noticed a decline in their numbers, only that they're being noticed in other areas. So they are adapting to climate change.
Conservative
Second Vice-President, Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated
Mr. Chairperson, I have lived with seals all my life. My grandfather taught me to be a seal hunter. They were our teachers before the white man arrived in our country. There is a constant movement of seals--we know that--because they're looking for feeding grounds. We know that certain stocks winter in one area, but other stocks that have smaller and younger pups may migrate from place to place because they're looking for feeding grounds, so there is a constant movement.
That's all I have to say. Thank you.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon.
I don't exactly know how we're going to make sure we understand each other. You can probably understand from the expression on my face what I am saying. I have a lot of respect for you and the testimony you gave. I get the feeling that you're trying to tell us that people in this country still have a lot to learn. You've spoken very wisely. And I believe that Europeans, Canadians and Quebeckers can benefit from this wisdom.
To date, you have in many respects borne the brunt of the anti-hunting campaign. In the riding that I represent, there have been seal hunters for the past 300 years or thereabouts. So seal hunting is to some extent also a part of our history.
The anti-hunting campaign started about 30 years ago, and I wonder what you could have done, had the Canadian government and the Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada given you their support.
Second Vice-President, Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated
Thank you very much.
I understand exactly what you are saying and I can relate to your being emotional about the issue.
When we had an opportunity and found out that we could be represented by your chairperson on sealing issues, I wrote to him, strongly wording it that as our Canadian government you have a responsibility to represent our interests to the European countries and to deal with policies in government-to-government relations, representing our interests government to government, and we asked that you represent our interests to the various governments.
We know that as individuals we don't have much say on what happens with government policies, or even trends that are happening in the world, but that if our government were to represent us, we had a better chance of being heard. So as Canadians we have appealed to our Canadian government, who represent us and speak for us on those issues.
Again, addressing the issue of sealing to you and our special interest in sealing, I want to mention for the last time that we are an aboriginal people in Canada, but separate from the other aboriginal peoples in Canada. We Inuit are taxpayers. We are proud to be taxpayers, because we are Canadians. We are supporting the federal and provincial governments by paying taxes; therefore, we expect the federal and provincials governments.... There are Inuit in Nunavut, Quebec, Labrador, and in other regions who are taxpayers, and we go to our governments to support us, because we support our governments, as Canadians.
Thank you.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
That's an excellent message.
Now, let me tell you this: after getting involved in the anti-seal-hunting campaign issue, I quickly understood that we were dealing with some powerful people. I'm referring, in some ways, to multinationals. In fact, the Humane Society and the IFAW have about US$100 million each from public donations. These funds have been collected in fundraising campaigns which have been conducted in a demagogic fashion and have involved propagating misinformation.
When it comes to sealing, it's become increasingly apparent to me how important it is for the message to be transmitted by those engaged in it, those whose livelihood depends on it, and for whom it is part of a culture. These people need to go to Europe and meet with the Europeans and, at a later stage, with the Americans. This would be a better way of getting the message through. For about 30 years, we have relied on our politicians, and our representatives. They have probably tried to fix the problem, but I don't think that they've tried hard enough. Furthermore, the argument voiced by a person engaged in sealing and whose livelihood depends on it, will hold more weight than that of a spokesperson.
And that is why I got people from the Magdalen Islands to come to Quebec City and Ottawa to meet European parliamentarians. A number of parliamentarians also came to visit us. And let me say in passing, that I would be honoured to have you visit us. It would give you an opportunity to speak with other seal hunters. I'm sure that you would all get along well. It is crucial in my opinion—and this is probably going to be one of our recommendations—that people like you should be the ones on the front lines getting the message out there and fighting the campaign they are waging. That would really work, in my opinion. It would be an extremely tough fight, but it is a fight that still hasn't been lost.
Second Vice-President, Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated
Mr. Chairperson, thank you.
You said earlier that we have to be involved with lobbying in the European countries. I agree. But I also agree that our government has a responsibility to represent us, and because they are the link to the other European countries, they know what is happening, and they get the invitation to meet with them.
So I expect that our government and the Inuit should have an agreement to work together as a team when the Canadian government is invited as a delegation to those talks on sealing, and that we will go as part of the delegation of the Canadian government. I say that because of the high cost of travel and the responsibility of the government that represents us. We are more than willing to work in partnership with our government if they would invite us to work with them on those trips.
Thank you.
February 1st, 2007 / 12:30 p.m.
Director, Wildlife Department, Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated
I'd like to try to answer some of Raynald's questions on what efforts we have taken. From the staff perspective, we try to work closely with the scientific committee of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, as well as NAMMCO and the Fur Institute of Canada, to ensure that from a statistics point of view we have that information in case there are any questions that perhaps what we're doing is unsustainable. On that front we have been engaged with those organizations, but on a campaign, in a public scale, I agree that it's one area in which we have to be more engaged, more engaged in those areas.
Thank you.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gerald Keddy
Thank you.
Go ahead, Mr. Stoffer--sorry, wait a second.
Go ahead, Mr. Anawak.
Researcher, Department of Environment, Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami
I just wanted to add something briefly. The Nunavut Sivuniksavut training program has been going on for more than 20 years here in Ottawa. In 1996, I believe, the students actually travelled to Europe to showcase some sealskin products and to discuss the sealing issue with Europeans, so Inuit have gone over there to discuss this issue. Our president of ITK has also been in touch with the King of Belgium, for instance, when Belgium was making sounds about wanting to ban seal products.
There's a history of travelling to Europe, but as these two said, we do feel there has to be more, and we would like government support to do so.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
First of all, thank you, Mr. Chairman, for organizing all of this today. And thank you very much for travelling all this way to explain the importance of seals in your life.
I just want to assure you about something, although I can't speak on behalf of the committee. When we get representation from folks within the first nations or aboriginal communities, it sometimes appears that you're almost apologizing for your lifestyle or your culture, and I want to assure you that you should not ever feel you have to apologize or explain your culture to us, because many of us understand, respect, and highly regard the Nunavut culture. If there are people in Canada who choose not to, I think you just go right past them and carry on. We thank you for your invitation, but please don't ever feel you have to apologize, especially when you've passed your traditions on to your next generation; hopefully they'll be able to pass your culture on to their generations and their children, and so on.
Sir, you mentioned a resolution from the European Council to the effect that it should not affect traditional lifestyles. I believe you used the word “should”. Anyone who's ever done collective bargaining knows that if you see the word “should” in a resolution, a motion, or anything of that nature, it can mean whatever you want it to mean, and if, as Mr. Blais indicated, the Government of Canada had invited people of your stature there to explain to them what the actions of the animal rights groups can do to your culture, even though they sit here at our committees and say they have no intentions to harm your way of life--well, this is exactly what they're doing, even though they may not admit it, so I couldn't agree more that you should be part of all delegations in the future.
My one question for you is on the reliance of scientific information in the north, not just with regard to global warming but also with regard to the number of seals, the number of harvests. Do you feel you have adequate support from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans officials in Nunavut? Can you possibly tell me the working relationship you have with the department? Do you feel the department could do more--maybe more resources--or is it adequate as you see it now?
And thank you for coming.
Director, Wildlife Department, Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated
Thank you, Mr. Stoffer, for those questions, and for your support and recognition of our potential, if we are a part of any campaign from here on in.
On your questions about Fisheries and Oceans support, unfortunately, for whatever reasons of political direction, the support up in Nunavut has been going down, from either an enforcement perspective or for support of scientific funding. The people up in Nunavut are wondering where DFO is, because we hunt other marine mammals, not just seals—whales and other marine mammals—and we are part of Canada. Even though we have our own land claims agreement, we still are ruled by Canada, with the recognition of our land claims.
I could say, I think without hesitation, that even though we are co-management partners with DFO, the directed funding and DFO presence and support have been going down for the past number of years.
Thank you.