Fisheries Committee on March 20th, 2007

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Sullivan, for appearing today, and the departmental staff.

Sir, just to back up a bit, you mentioned the seal hunt twice in your presentation. As you're aware, this committee is about to finalize its report on the seal harvest, and we're very, very cautious not to use the word “hunt”. So I respectfully ask that in your position you refer to it as a harvest. A “hunt” just brings up so many red flags to those, who we call environmentalists, who are opposed to any hunting, period. The sealing, in our view, and any fishing of stock out there, is a harvest. I respectfully ask that you use the word “harvest” in your deliberations, especially in international discussions.

The second part, sir, is that you were previously finance minister in the Newfoundland and Labrador government. Is that correct?

[Loyola Sullivan]

Yes, Mr. Chair.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Sir, when did you leave that position?

[Loyola Sullivan]

I left that position on December 29.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

And when did the position of fisheries ambassador come available to you?

[Loyola Sullivan]

I got a call on January 23, when the position became available.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

So roughly within a month then?

[Loyola Sullivan]

That's correct.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Very good. Thank you.

Sir, one of the concerns dealing especially with the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador and that of Quebec is the issue of the irritant of the 20% tariff on cooked and peeled shrimp. Have you been dealing with that issue at all, or have you had an opportunity to discuss it with the European nations?

[Loyola Sullivan]

Yes, Mr. Stoffer, I have, to a great extent, as late as yesterday with the EU ambassador to Canada, and I've stressed very strongly that we need very, very significant changes in the ATRQ. I anticipate that in the next four to five weeks there will be a recommendation to the EU to deal with that issue.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Okay.

Sir, when you were in the provincial government, as you may or may not know, your premier at that time received a letter prior to the last election in January of last year, stating that if the Conservatives had formed the government, they would move towards custodial management. As you may know, Minister Hearn was a strong advocate of custodial management when he was on our committee in opposition. In 2002 and 2003, this committee did unanimous reports on custodial management. We were assured that custodial management would happen. In fact, the all-party committee from Newfoundland and Labrador came down here to request custodial management. I'm just wondering, in lieu of the question from Mr. Simms, is custodial management still on the table or not?

[Loyola Sullivan]

I think the question by Mr. Simms was on whether I have supported custodial management. I haven't made a statement on custodial management. The government, which was a member, made a statement. I just wanted to clarify that, because I think that's where the question came from.

On custodial management—and this is the Government of Canada's position as conveyed to me—we want the same management regime in place outside our exclusive economic zone in NAFO as we apply inside it. We expect the same in the world community as we expect from ourselves.

Right now, all countries in NAFO have signed on to UNFA except for two contracting parties: Korea, which doesn't fish in the NAFO region, to my knowledge; and Cuba, very limited. The rest have agreed with the principles of UNFA that would bring responsible management to the NAFO area.

We're certainly confident that with the changes enacted and the changes, hopefully, with the NAFO convention, we will have all like-minded countries moving together with the proper conservation needed as we would apply inside our exclusive economic zone.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you.

In lieu of my question for Mr. Blais on whether you have met anyone in Quebec yet, have you had an opportunity to meet any people from Nunavut yet?

As you know, there is concern among fisheries in Nunavut about Greenland and others coming in under so-called flags and having fish processed in other countries. Are you aware of those concerns? Have you had an opportunity or are you planning in the future to meet with those individuals?

[Loyola Sullivan]

Under my mandate I would certainly like to meet with everybody who has a stake in dealing with that and any impact on it.

I spoke with representatives—not official representatives of the government—at the seafood show in Boston. Nunavut is engaged—and hopefully Premier Okalik—in this mission I'm going to Europe with. We're looking at partnering with the premier there. I can't say whether the premier will be there, but there will be representatives from Nunavut, and we've engaged them in this issue.

I'm familiar with some of their pressing issues. I've had discussions with people in Nunavut on the catching and processing. Some of them are domestic issues. I'm not going to weigh in on domestic issues—that's not my responsibility. But I will certainly be tuned in on issues that impact international fishing areas.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

Thank you, Mr. Sullivan.

Mr. Manning.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I certainly want to welcome Ambassador Sullivan here this morning and the people from the departments. For those who may not know, I have known Ambassador Sullivan for many years, and I think the position is very fitting. I look forward to some positive news from his new role.

In a previous answer to Mr. Blais, you alluded to your history in the fishing industry. Can you clarify exactly how you were involved in the fishing industry over a 20-year period?

[Loyola Sullivan]

I became involved in the fishery in 1974, and with another partner I spent 20 years in industry. I was an owner-operator of two fish processing plants. One in particular was primarily for groundfish, but it also did pelagics, tuna, salmon—just about anything that swam and was available to be harvested and purchased.

We marketed deboned and individually wrapped packages to a variety of different markets—several different types of products. We marketed primarily in the United States. We had a significant demand for skin-on cod fillets in the U.K. market, tuna in the Japanese market, and squid in the Japanese market and other Asian markets. We dealt with salmon when it was on a commercial basis to domestic markets here in Canada. We also operated a salt fishing operation that marketed salt fish primarily to European countries.

We had reasonably extensive operations at that time and significant volume, with a daily capacity for groundfish of about 130,000 pounds a day and a capacity on pelagics of about 140,000 pounds a day. That was the maximum volume of the operations there.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

Thank you.

Realizing that you're the ambassador for Canada, I want to zero in on my problems and yours in regard to Newfoundland and Labrador. As the ambassador, what do you see today as the most important issue facing the fishing industry in the province of Newfoundland and Labrador?

[Loyola Sullivan]

I see this as domestic probably more than international, because Canada's fishing on the high seas is very limited. We don't do extensive fishing on the high seas, maybe because we developed a strong coastline, a continental shelf that has sufficient resources within our area. Overall, I see controlling overfishing as being very significant.

Dealing on the international side is advancing the ball to ensure that other countries of the world take this business seriously, that we're going to have a resource around for future generations. We have to use whatever pressure is necessary. It would be in varying amounts, depending on the particular state, to ensure we're going to have that fishery there and what mechanisms we need.

There are some ongoing ones related to your question on Newfoundland and Labrador, and that's getting nations to sign on to UNFA. As an example, there are very strong measures in UNFA. As of March 7, 65 have signed on. There are another 38 that are landlocked or shelf-locked that don't have a direct interest in signing on, so that would only leave about 40 more to sign on, if you look at the 152 that have signed UNFA.

So it's close to 60% of the ones with a direct interest. Getting those countries to advance and sign on—We've had some interactions, even in my short seven weeks in the job, to try to advance the ball in those areas too. I think they impact us all; they impact every single province, not only Newfoundland and Labrador, because when nations take on a fishing responsibility, that benefits everybody. I think one of my roles is advancing that issue and using whatever leverage or mechanism and support available to be able to achieve that goal.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

I would like to follow up on that. The high seas task force released in 2006 a fine report outlining measures they would like to combat the IUU fishing. The task force was formed, as you're fully aware, back in December 2003, and it includes fishery ministers of the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Chile, and others, as well as representatives of the WWF International, the World Conservation Union, and the Earth Institute.

What will Canada's specific role be in implementing some of these measures?

[Loyola Sullivan]

Overall, there were seven recommendations in the high seas task force report. Four of these were ongoing. There are three specific ones, I think, in which Canada is certainly playing a leading role.

One is to have a model RFMO—in other words, having a model fisheries management organization there—and we're making significant strides in developing that. I made reference to it in my overview at the beginning. Moving this on and using this as a tool by people who can refer to it as a benchmark in other countries is very important.

A couple of other areas, in particular, are ones that the FAO has taken on, like an international vessels database and a proper monitoring, control, and surveillance system. Registry vessels have better tracking at sea, appropriate monitoring.

Those are the three key things we're playing a role in, from the high seas task force, to advance this issue. I would say those are the three key ones. There are some other ongoing ones that have surfaced before, but we're playing a lead role in advancing the model RFMO. That would be the key one I would single out.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

Do I still have time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

Yes, you have had three and a half minutes.

[Fabian Manning, Conservative, Avalon, NL]

You're very generous today, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

At ten minutes I'm not generous.