Fisheries Committee on May 1st, 2007

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

It's only up until a certain point, just to alleviate....

[David Bevan]

It is up to a point in time, yes.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Now, will there be additional monitoring, as well, to see what the impact is?

[David Bevan]

We have VMS. We have the facility to monitor where the vessels are, and that's done in near real time in terms of getting the signals from the vessels and having that analyzed. So that, plus normal air surveillance and patrols, would be the key for monitoring.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

I think that after the first year of 18 going into 12, that's when we really started seeing the additional activity on the line. There was a call first--correct me if I'm wrong--for increased access to the southern line on 19. There's a five-mile buffer between 19 and where the old 18 was. There was initially a call to shrink that to three miles.

[David Bevan]

It's all a matter of access. Obviously, the people who used to fish there want to follow the fish, and if the fish are crowding up against area 19, that's where they want to go. We didn't have a consensus on a lot of these issues because of the interests of the fishers on whatever side of the line they were on. Area 19 wanted more buffer, and others don't want any. So it's just a compromise by the minister to try to respond to the needs of--

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Would this be your pilot?

[David Bevan]

We haven't come to a conclusion on the next steps, but I think we have to have further talks with crab fishermen over the course of the fall, because I think there's also a need to evaluate how the fishery is doing. We had moved to oceans to plate. One of the problems we've had in the crab fishery has been glut and waste, and we have to monitor what happens this year. We've heard of 45,000-pound landings, and if everybody comes in with that kind of load, it's going to be another problem.

So we're looking at the need to get all the players together at some point over the course of the early fall to evaluate how things have been going and to look at how to maximize the value of this fishery.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

So the directive is initially just for this year.

[David Bevan]

That's what the decision was for this year, but we need to look at longer-term solutions for all of it, whether it's improving the value or trying to work out these issues.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

You have 20 seconds.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

No, go ahead.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

We'll go to Monsieur Asselin.

[Gérard Asselin, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

We often say that the more things change, the more they stay the same. In 2006, Canadians and Quebeckers decided to change governments, and did so because of a certain level of frustration. The fishermen in my riding, the port authorities and the population in general decided to vote new elected officials and a new government into office. It was the only power they had. They did not have the power to change the public service or the departments.

You seem somewhat uncomfortable with Mr. Blais' questions. What we are talking about here is applying a band-aid solution to a problem. We are behaving as though the country is bankrupt, and yet, the government's budgetary surpluses are in the order of $13 to $15 billion per year. It is easy to accumulate a surplus: all you have to do is plan for it in the budget and not spend the money.

Federal facilities, including small crafts harbours, are our property and the responsibility of the department. The government decided—and the more things change the more they stay the same, both for the Conservatives and for the Liberals—to pay down the mortgage rather than invest in maintenance. Personally, if I pay down my mortgage but let my house deteriorate to the point where it falls apart, I'm going to have trouble selling it.

I would now like to talk about the Port Divestiture Program for Small Crafts Harbours. You are going to have difficulty selling these wharves to port authorities. In fact, they are having problems keeping up their maintenance. We are talking about exhausted volunteers who are not getting the necessary support to manage these harbours. These people are as fragile as a house of cards today. In some areas, we wonder if it is the boat that is holding up the wharf or the wharf that is holding up the boat.

I can see that the Conservative members are looking at me, but I am anxious to see if the Conservatives will distinguish themselves from the Liberals. The only investments that have been made, through Fisheries and Oceans, affected certain wharves on the North Shore and in the Gaspé. The improvement amounted to a fence with a sign indicating that the wharf was dangerous and was no longer accessible. As I was saying, we are talking here about exhausted and disgusted volunteers, who soon will abandon their efforts altogether.

How much would it cost to properly refurbish all of Canada's small crafts harbours? If the work is spread over too long a period of time, the first harbours to be refurbished will no longer be in good shape in 10 years' time, for example. That is why I was talking about a five-year time frame.

I would like to know if the department is going to assume its responsibilities and make a recommendation. If you do so, I would like to have a copy. From that moment on, we would be able to put pressure on the minister in the House of Commons to act on your recommendation, that is to allocate a given sum of money for the work to be done over the next five years. Your work would be done and you would have assumed your responsibilities. The ball would then be in the minister's and elected officials' court.

[Larry Murray]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I think I should repeat what the minister said about this last week, that is, that the government and the minister succeeded in upping that budget to $11 million two years ago. This year, under the most recent budget, there was a $20-million increase. That is an improvement. As I said, and as the minister also said last week, we continue to press forward with this important file.

With regards to estimates, I'll ask Mr. Hegge to give you the numbers we currently have.

[Cal Hegge]

Thank you, Mr. Asselin.

We conducted a study on the state of our ports. I believe the committee is aware of this. According to our estimate, an additional $35 million per year will be required over the next five years.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

Thank you.

Mr. Stoffer.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Da Pont, as you're aware, this committee moved a motion that was eventually moved into the House regarding the northern fees, north of 60, especially for Nunavut areas. We had asked quite clearly that those fees be removed, and the word “immediately” was in there.

It has been a few months now. You had indicated that there would be a study group of various people from industries and that. I didn't see it in the budget, unfortunately, so I'm going to ask again. When can we expect those fees to be removed? Because, as you know, the shipping season starts very soon, and this would have a huge benefit to our northern communities.

[Commr George Da Pont]

Mr. Chairman, what we've done on that is we have set up a working group between ourselves and the shipping industry, including representation from northerners, to try to find a mutually satisfactory solution to the issue of marine service fees. That group has been working for a number of months. It has been exchanging ideas.

I hope that through that work we can find an option that works both for the shipping industry and for government. The approach we're taking is to try to find a global solution and not to do any one-offs in one particular part of the country or another. So far those discussions are going well, but I anticipate it will take a few more months yet to arrive at a solution.

We didn't anticipate any changes for this year, but we do have a process in place looking to find a sustainable long-term solution that works for everybody to the marine service fee issue.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Okay. On a different tack now, the Pacific Salmon Treaty, when it was signed by a previous minister, Minister Anderson, indicated there would be funds coming to habitat restoration in British Columbia. From my information, there has been about $11 million, I believe--I could be wrong on that--from that fund for habitat restoration. I just glanced through, and I've read the plans and priorities before. Can you tell me where it would be? Would that be in plans and priorities, or where would that money be?

Is there an estimate or a survey of where the money went and what projects were enabled to have been done by this money from the Pacific Salmon Treaty?

[Larry Murray]

Mr. Chair, I'll ask Mr. Bevan or Dr. Wendy Watson-Wright to augment this, and I think we'll probably have to come back with details on paper to the committee.

I was in the department as the associate deputy minister when.... It wasn't a direct relationship with the Pacific Salmon Treaty, but it was in the same timeframe as we were negotiating the Pacific Salmon Treaty. I think it was about a $400-million overall scenario that played out, with second post-TAGS playing out east, and a good chunk of that money was dedicated to habitat restoration. I think a good bit of that has sunset, but certainly we're continuing to invest in habitat west.

In fact, next week at this committee I think we're providing a presentation on the environmental process modernization thing, which is related to how we do that in the most effective way possible.

I'll ask my colleagues to flesh out the answer, but I think I would like to go back to the decision in the timeframe that the honourable member's asking about, because that was then and now is now. But there is a story that we do owe the committee, and it's a really good question, actually.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

Perhaps, Mr. Murray, you could get back to the committee with that information.

[Larry Murray]

Absolutely.

I think to be accurate, we'd probably be better.... In fact, we could bring it next week. For sure, we'll bring it next week.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

My last question before I'm cut off is about the trust agreements. I understand the minister and the department are trying to work on some sort of a plan to move forward on that. But about the agreements that are already signed, that are already out there, called controlling agreements, I guess, what is the department's plan to stop those? And if you already have one, can you legally stop it from continuing? And what is the game plan to prevent them from happening in the future?

[Larry Murray]

This was, again, part of the “Ocean to Plate” series of announcements that the minister made. It was Atlantic-wide, but the announcement was made in St. John's during the last break, on April 12. The independence of the inshore fleet, which is what the honourable member is referring to, was part of that.

Individuals who have a controlling agreement do have seven years to get out of it. We believe that the capital gains up to $750,000 that are unlimited within a family helps people to do that.

I'd ask Mr. Bevan to give a more detailed response, because I suspect coastal members are going to be hearing or have already heard from fishermen about forms and that kind of stuff. So it's a very topical question.