Fisheries Committee on May 1st, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

We'll call the meeting to order for the main estimates 2007-2008, votes 1, 5, and 10 under Fisheries and Oceans.

Our witnesses will be from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans: Larry Murray, deputy minister; George Da Pont, Commissioner of the Canadian Coast Guard; David Bevan, assistant deputy minister, fisheries and aquaculture management; Cal Hegge, assistant deputy minister, human resources and corporate services; Wendy Watson-Wright, assistant deputy minister, science; and Michaela Huard, assistant deputy minister, policy. Welcome.

We have an opening statement from Mr. Murray.

[Larry Murray, Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have no opening statement. I thought the committee would probably prefer to get on with questions. So we'll just pick up where you left off last week with the minister. We're at your disposal, and it's great to be here. Thanks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

Thank you for that.

We don't have our questioner list yet, but I assume that the Liberal member, Mr. St. Amand, will start off.

[Lloyd St. Amand, Liberal, Brant, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Liberal member will start off.

I'm here this morning attempting to take the place of Mr. MacAulay. I see that Mr. Cuzner has arrived, and I will defer to Mr. Cuzner, if you'll allow him 45 seconds to take his place.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

Monsieur Blais, are you ready?

[Raynald Blais]

Oui.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

Go ahead.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

That means I will therefore have 10 minutes instead of seven. Thank you very much.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. The first point I would like to raise with you is on small crafts harbours. In his presentation to the committee last week, the minister described an administrative exercise the objective of which was to review the budgetary allocation system for small crafts harbours. I know that we have already had the opportunity to address this issue several times, but I would like to know what will be done differently on the administrative front over the next few months. What is the timeframe for action on small crafts harbours?

[Larry Murray]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will ask Mr. Hegge to answer that question.

[Cal Hegge, Assistant Deputy Minister, Human Resources and Corporate Services, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Thank you for your question. We intend to re-evaluate the formula that we are currently using to allocate funds. In fact, we are waiting to see if we will be receiving more funds. As you know, we did receive $20 million, but we are still working with our colleagues from the central agencies to see if we cannot obtain more resources. Over the next four months, we will re-assess our formula in order to see whether or not it is still the best way to allocate funds.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

So the central point of this review is therefore the distribution of funds.

[Cal Hegge]

Yes. We assess all of the fund allocation criteria in order to see whether the percentages are still in effect or if there are any reasons to change the formula. That obviously could change the current distribution of funds to the regions.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

You clearly understand that this a very, very sensitive point. I would like to know what process is going to be put in place. How could we—and when I say we, that does not exclude the person speaking, it includes him—collaborate on or contribute to this process? I would not want to find myself facing a done deal, where the allocation formula might change completely.

[Cal Hegge]

We will work with and consult the regions, as well as the port authorities. I also suggest consultation with the committee. We are open to all ideas as far as reviewing the current formula is concerned.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Are you planning a consultation with our committee?

[Cal Hegge]

Not at the moment, but I am open to ideas or to a consultation with the committee.

[Larry Murray]

Given the committee's support for and interest in this issue, the department would certainly want to be aware of your position before finalizing this approach. After all the meetings you have had, you are practically the best experts in the field. I believe the department will certainly support your participation.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Is that a guarantee, or a possibility?

[Larry Murray]

Yes. Absolutely.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

It is a good idea to re-assess the allocations to small crafts harbours, but handing out next to nothing is a far cry from being a good solution. You have said it and so as everyone else: the solution will be found through a massive reinvestment in this area, because the more we wait, the more overwhelming the amounts will be. Over the last few years, your estimate of the funding requirements has increased. Unfortunately, I have the impression that today, it is increased once again compared to yesterday.

Therefore, the main point is that a massive injection of funds is needed. In that regard, in some way, I am rather disappointed to hear that the administrative review will deal only with the allocations. I would have thought that the assessment would have allowed you to go to Treasury Board with more arguments and an even more substantial file to demonstrate the importance of increasing the budget.

[Larry Murray]

The minister definitely shares the perspective of the committee as to the importance of this issue. As Mr. Hegge said, he continues to make efforts to increase the budget. I know that he greatly appreciates the continued interest of the committee.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

You say that we are allies of sorts, and that is true. But we are also the adversaries of those who are not making progress on this file. How can you better plead your case to Treasury Board if you do not bolster this file? Do you intend to make it a stronger case? If so, in what way?

[Larry Murray]

We are continuing our efforts in this regard; the minister is as well. As he said last week, the budget provides certain resources for infrastructure. There are some possibilities there. We are not entirely certain of it, but we continue to take the fact into account. As the minister stated, there are all sorts of priorities, of which small crafts harbours is one. He's making every possible effort, and we give him our support when necessary.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerald Keddy]

Thank you, Mr. Murray.

We'll go to Mr. Stoffer, and we'll come back to Mr. Cuzner.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for appearing today.

You probably read the other day a letter to the editor of our Chronicle-Herald newspaper by Captain Stewart Klebert, who has just about 35 years experience within the coast guard, and he is also one of my constituents. I just want to make a brief statement on his concerns. He has addressed some very serious concerns about the reallocation of the Terry Fox and the Louis S. St-Laurent to Newfoundland, as have the Canadian Coast Guard alumni. They have made assessments of their opinion regarding this move to Argentia and to Newfoundland.

Mr. Da Pont, when you were here last time you indicated a cost of about half a million dollars in terms of relocating the staff and everything else over the five years of going back and forth. I'm just wondering if you have now had a chance to estimate the total cost to the Canadian taxpayer to move those vessels from Nova Scotia to Newfoundland, including everything: administration, dredging, any dock work, anything that needs to be done in order to have the same type of access they had in the maritime region.