Fisheries Committee on May 15th, 2007

[Larry Murray]

That has really been the focus of the minister's ocean-to-plate approach. How the hell do we tie all this thing together, ensure that we get the resources to market at the best price for everybody, and take maximum advantage of the existing resources?

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Raynald Blais]

Thank you, Mr. Calkins.

Mr. Matthews.

[Bill Matthews, Liberal, Random—Burin—St. George's, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I want to welcome our witnesses again.

As I said to Scott, with all this jurisdictional overlap, the poor fish must be so confused. I wonder if it impacts their growth.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Larry Murray]

Look what it did to me.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Larry Murray]

Sometimes it impacts on our stories.

[Bill Matthews, Liberal, Random—Burin—St. George's, NL]

It stunted three old red fish.

Mr. Calkins put an idea in my mind. Is the feed for our farm fish Canadian-made, or is any of it imported? That's not what I really wanted to ask, but could someone answer that? I represent a fairly significant aquaculture area in the Connaigre Peninsula. It's going to get bigger, by all accounts, over the next five to ten years, so I was wondering if it's Canadian-made or coming in from somewhere else.

The last day you were here, I asked a question on the FPI groundfish quotas. At that time, Mr. Bevan was in Newfoundland and Labrador in intense meetings, negotiations, and discussions. Can you give me an update on that? Has it been resolved, or are we close to resolving it?

I understand that the province is now in possession of written proposals, and I'm wondering if you could please update us on that.

[Larry Murray]

I'll start and then I'll ask David to speak. I should tell you that David went to Newfoundland with carry-on luggage and he came back several days after his carry-on luggage ran out.

There's a very key vote tonight by labour, and I gather the results will be out at ten o'clock. That's really critical to this. I think the minister believes that we have the makings of something that will fly for everybody, but going beyond that at the moment is a bit challenging.

Dave, do you want to talk a bit about the process?

[David Bevan]

The process actually started last Sunday, with meetings here, and led to discussions in Newfoundland to come to ground on the issue of the kinds of controls that would be placed on the fishing of those groundfish quotas. That was essentially all the discussion that took place.

There was a position clarified and left with the province and we're waiting for the rest of the process to unfold in terms of the transfer from one company to another, the labour arrangements, the provincial role, and how all of that will work out. Hopefully, we'll see some resolution over the course of the next couple of days.

[Bill Matthews, Liberal, Random—Burin—St. George's, NL]

If the offer is accepted by the union, which I'm very optimistic it will be, that won't settle it, is what you're telling me. There are still other things to be done.

[David Bevan]

I think we have to hear from all the parties on all of the elements. One part is how the quotas will transfer, then there are all the arrangements between the province and companies involved. All of those have to come together. It may be settled in the next few days, but it may take longer in terms of all the details around the legal drafting, the contracts and all that kind of thing. But we're hopeful that the elements of the deal will be coming together in the next few days.

[Bill Matthews, Liberal, Random—Burin—St. George's, NL]

Does the province have all the information they requested from you people?

[David Bevan]

There are still discussions going on today, but I think we're getting to the point where they understand enough about what we're doing to ensure that they can make an informed decision.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Raynald Blais]

Monsieur Cuzner.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

I thank Mr. Matthews for allowing me this question.

Peter asked about this before, and I know, Mr. Murray, that you and Mr. Bevan are very much aware of the situation in Canso. You've seen this movie before, and the ending doesn't look any better than it has in past years.

A remote coastal community is really going to live or die at the whim of the processor that holds the quotas that are attached to that facility. There's desperation in the community. They're at wits' end.

What clubs does the minister have in his bag to help out the situation? What is the spectrum of response that could be within the realm of power for the minister to help that community?

[David Bevan]

That community traditionally was reliant on groundfish. Unfortunately, that area of the Scotian Shelf, 4VsW, is really not doing well in terms of groundfish. The cod quota in that area, when we put the moratoria on 15 years ago, was around 20,000 tonnes of spawning stock biomass. It's about 2,000 tonnes today, notwithstanding no fishing. So the stocks they were relying on are not recovering. There were arrangements made with other companies to move in, but again, that hasn't panned out.

The minister has the authority and the responsibility under the Fisheries Act, obviously, to allocate fish and to provide licences. That is a tool that can be used, but he doesn't have the authority to specify exact landing spots, like Canso, Burgeo, Ramea, Lunenberg, or any other place. He can't do that. He is in the situation now where there are simply not a lot of the species that were traditionally supporting that town available for allocation. It's a real tough issue for both the minister and, in particular, for the people of towns such as Canso.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Raynald Blais]

Thank you very much, Mr. Cuzner.

Mr. Asselin.

[Gérard Asselin, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I would like to respond to a statement made by Mr. Bevan a little earlier. The problem with the federal government is that the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

You talked about a labour shortage. The problem with fisherman's helpers and processing plants has no impact in downtown Toronto or Montreal, but it does in the region, in regions where there is a fisheries industry, in the Gaspé Peninsula, on the North Shore, and in other regions of Canada where people fish.

People are interested in becoming fishermen's helpers, because one day they will become fishers. Men, women, young people, and older workers are interested in working in processing plants. You say that young people are not interested in taking over. The problem is with Human Resources and Social Development Canada. Young people who enter the workforce, or the woman who decides that her children are old enough and independents enough for her to re-enter the workforce, must work 910 hours to be eligible for employment insurance. In processing plants, or for fishermen's helpers, the season isn't long enough, quotas are not high enough, there are moratoria, etc. Young people are not interested in going off welfare. They have left the regions to work in large centres, or to try and survive in large centres, because they don't have work in the regions. There are many people in the regions who want to work.

You don't need a university degree to work in a processing plant or to work as a fisherman's helper; you just need a few hours of training. The young person or the woman whose children are old enough for her to decide to re-enter the workforce, the older worker who has retired and who decides that he is still physically able to do some king of work for a portion of the year, would want to work there. Given that young people need 910 hours, it doesn't work. People who are already in the processing plants and those who are already working as fishers need 420 hours to be entitled to employment insurance. They continue in those jobs because they are guaranteed employment insurance.

With the support of the NDP, we are proposing to improve access to employment insurance. We are proposing 360 hours for everyone in agriculture and in the fisheries industry.

Don't bring Chinese people or Mexicans to the North Shore to take jobs from people who want to work. If they aren't working, it's not because there is no work or because they don't have the training, it's simply because they aren't entitled to employment insurance.

Talk to the people at the Department of Human Resources and Social Development and try to get them to understand. It's not up to politicians to do that. Officials must talk among themselves and realize that the bill to amend employment insurance make sense and will allow for replacement workers in the fishing and agricultural industries. At the very least, it would enable young people to enter the workforce in the fishing industry. Let's allow them to enter the workforce by guaranteeing that they will be eligible for employment insurance following the period where they have worked.

That is the problem. Look no farther: that is the problem. People don't want to work in these areas, because the season is not long enough and young people don't qualify for employment insurance.

[David Bevan]

You have described the problems facing the fishing industry and the fisheries. That is why we have undertaken discussions in the regions, with the provinces, to attempt to resolve these problems. An announcement will be made April 12. There are a considerable number of changes to fisheries policies. We clearly don't want foreigners to take jobs from Canadians, but many plants have problems, for example in Prince Edward Island or in other areas, where it is impossible to find staff. It was therefore necessary to find employees elsewhere.

We are in the process of changing policies so that fishers and people working in fish processing plants have better opportunities to earn a living, to earn more money. In fact, even with employment insurance, it is difficult in many areas to have a good salary working in the fishing industry. That is why the young people aren't there. They want a different life style, and they are continuing their education and moving to places where they can find better jobs. We have to change jobs in fish processing plants, increase the standard of living and improve opportunities for making money while working in the fishing industry.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Raynald Blais]

Thank you very much.

We are going to finish this round with Mr. Stoffer. You will have a lot less than five minutes.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

First of all, congratulations to the minister and yourselves for continuing the recognition of the Rubber Boot Brigade. These are the people who do the recreational fishery enhancements across the country. I thought that ceremony was quite nice.

I have a couple of questions for you on the Pacific Salmon Treaty. Are negotiations going on with our American cousins in that regard? Also, the ballast exchange--I know a lot of that goes with Transport, but what role is DFO playing to ensure that we have some of the most stringent ballast concerns going? Especially in the Great Lakes and on our east and west coasts, there is still a growing concern out there about ballast exchange. I'm just wondering if you could discuss those two issues, if possible.

[David Bevan]

The PST—Pacific Salmon Treaty—is due for renegotiation in 2008. We need to determine with our American friends whether or not we wish to roll over the provisions that we have now, or seek to reopen it. So that's the nature of the discussions we're in right now, and after we've gone through that process we'll determine what the next steps are.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Raynald Blais]

Thank you very much.