Fisheries Committee on May 15th, 2007

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Raynald Blais]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Murray, you do not have a presentation as such, but you wanted to give the floor to committee members. Is that correct?

[Larry Murray, Deputy Minister, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Chairman, we are prepared to answer questions from committee members.

Perhaps I'll introduce the players, although I think most members of the committee know them.

With me are Michaela Huard, ADM policy; Dr. Wendy Watson-Wright, ADM science; David Bevan, ADM fisheries and aquaculture management; George Da Pont, Commissioner, Canadian Coast Guard; Alain Corriveau, our director general finance; and Sue Kirby, ADM oceans and habitat.

We are ready, Mr. Chairman.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Raynald Blais]

Thank you very much.

Who wants the floor on the Liberal side? Mr. Simms.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Thank you all for coming.

I would like to pick up on an issue that came up recently.

Mr. Da Pont, there were rumblings about the purchasing of vessels again. Could you explain again to me what you plan to buy in the next ten years? In general, you could start out with the midshore and offshore fleet.

[Commissioner George Da Pont, Commissioner, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

We have authorization to acquire a total of 17 new vessels. One is an air cushion vehicle for Quebec that will replace the existing air cushion vehicle in Quebec. That is an item we have been working on for some time, and it's now in the actual construction stage. We expect to have that one next year. We have funded it out of our regular capital funding.

In the last two budgets, we have received authority to purchase 16 new vessels in total. There will be eight midshore patrol vessels, plus another four midshore patrol vessels for security purposes on the Great Lakes and the St. Lawrence. Of the total of twelve vessels, five are new ones, additions to the fleet, and the others are replacements for existing vessels.

On top of that, we've been authorized to replace the three main science research vessels and the one oceanographic research vessel. All of those four are replacements for existing science vessels.

The total there is sixteen, five of which are additions to the fleet and eleven replacements for existing vessels, if you want the numbers writ large.

In terms of the processes, we have put out a request for proposals for a number of the midshore patrol vessels and are in the process of evaluating the bids. For those, I'm hopeful we will be able to issue a contract over the summer, and we're hoping to have the first of these midshore patrol vessels sometime by late 2009, and a new one every few months afterwards.

For two of the science vessels we hope to go to that stage early next year and to issue a contract next year. That would lead, we hope, to getting the first of those vessels in late 2011 or early 2012.

For the vessels that were approved in this last budget, we haven't yet finalized the procurement strategy. We would have to follow the normal process of going forward with suggestions of possible options for procurement, and we're working on that.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Which of these vessels are primarily in charge of Arctic deployment?

[Commr George Da Pont]

None of those vessels would be utilized in the Arctic because they are not icebreakers.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

This is somewhat political, but when it comes to the issue of Arctic sovereignty and the heavy icebreakers, it is strictly under DND. Is that correct?

[Commr George Da Pont]

We have developed a proposal of fleet renewal for almost all of our coast guard fleet, including the icebreakers, over a 25-year period. So we would like to get relatively early decisions on replacing the two heavy ice breakers, the Louis S. St. Laurent and the Terry Fox. We anticipate those vessels will continue to have a useful life until close to 2020, but we anticipate about a ten-year process to replace them. So we hope to get a relatively early decision.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

That's for the vessels.

[Commr George Da Pont]

That's right--the two heavy icebreakers. The remaining medium icebreakers we have are among the vessels in the fleet that are in better condition, so we won't be looking to replace them until subsequent phases.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Those are not generally in the Arctic area, are they?

[Commr George Da Pont]

Yes. Every year we have at least six and sometimes seven vessels in the Arctic--the two heavy icebreakers, and four or five of the medium icebreakers.

[Larry Murray]

Certainly on one of the science vessels, the oceanographic vessel, the last thing is a replacement for the Hudson. It will have some ice capability, and the fisheries research vessels will as well. The Hudson has operated in the far north in season--the kind of September-October timeframe. Clearly there is science work to be done in the Davis Strait, and so on.

I just want to be clear that these science vessels could work in the north, but not in the way you've asked the question. I don't want to leave the impression that they have no capability to do science work in the north. They will when seasonal conditions permit. The oceanographic ship would certainly have the ice capability of the Hudson, so it could operate in modest ice conditions.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Which vessels are primarily in charge of monitoring foreign vessels off the nose and the tail of the Grand Banks?

[Commr George Da Pont]

Right now we have three vessels, the Cygnus, the Cape Roger , and a third, the Leonard J. Cowley. We always have two of those three on the nose and tail of the Grand Banks at any one time.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

What is the involvement of DND in monitoring of the nose and tail?

[Commr George Da Pont]

DND receives some funding support to give us assistance at particular times, on request, and to have a DND vessel available from time to time.

[Larry Murray]

We have an MOU with DND that specifies the number of days--I think it's 155--for both coasts. On the west coast we have traditionally used some of that time for search-and-rescue support, but in general terms they provide support to ensure that we can try to maintain a two- to three-ship presence out there. So we do have frigates occasionally, and sometimes we have coastal patrol vessels. The main work has been done in the last few years by moving Cygnus and having three offshore patrol vessels available stationed in St. John's.

I would also say the Aurora aircraft from the military augment and support the provincial airways for aircraft.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

True. So that's a significance presence out there, in your opinion.

[Larry Murray]

I would say that Canada has a significant presence out there most of the time--

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

But it's not exclusive. Who else is involved?

[Larry Murray]

The EU has a patrol vessel out there.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

Given our involvement out there, are we pretty much the custodial managers of the nose and tail of the Grand Banks?

[Larry Murray]

In the context of the recent reforms under way in NAFO and the changes in the compliance that came into effect in January this year, we do not have custodial management. But we certainly have a regime that has very effective compliance. That played out in the last 36 to 48 hours in events out there. The minister has said at this committee a few times that we haven't had incidents, but we did have one recently. We found a major infraction. The EU confirmed it, and the vessel has been returned to its home port. The reality is that the regime in place works.

By having two very capable patrol vessels out there doing boardings on an ongoing basis, great air patrol coverage by provincial airways usually so we know what's going on, coupled with VMS and a compliance regime now that works, I would say we are achieving very effective compliance, as the minister has said.