Fisheries Committee on April 8th, 2008

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

I call the meeting to order.

Before we hear from our witnesses, we have received from members the names of witnesses who want to appear during our scheduled road trip next week. In some cases there are numerous witnesses on the list, and I want to make sure we're all on the same wavelength here.

Our meetings are set for three hours. One choice is to have three one-hour sessions with three sets of witnesses, where the witnesses would present for 10 minutes and we would have a 45-minute round of questions, give or take. We would have a few minutes to play with in one hour. The other choice is to have two 90-minute sessions, where witnesses would present for 20 minutes and then we'd go to the question and answer period.

Is everybody clear on that? In some cases we have numerous witnesses and we won't have the luxury of allowing every witness to make a presentation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if we go with the one-hour session for a group, we'll have a 10-minute presentation from the witnesses. If we go with the 90-minute meeting for a group, we'll have a 20-minute presentation from the witnesses.

Mr. Byrne.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Do you mean it would be 10 minutes per witnesses, or 10 minutes for the group?

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

It would be 10 minutes total in the one-hour meeting, and in the 90-minute meeting it would be 20 minutes total for the complete presentation of the witnesses.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

When you say we have a number of witnesses, what exactly do you mean? What's the status?

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Mr. Godin has put forward 12 witnesses, and Mr. Blais has put forward 23. I think they're the two big numbers. I submitted 10.

I don't want to get down to a meeting in one of the provinces and try to debate this. Does everybody understand what I'm saying?

Mr. Blais.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I am perfectly aware that we will be together Sunday night. It will be easy for each panel or each member hosting the committee in their own riding to take a few moments to discuss this with the chair and to agree on the procedure. I have no problem with the one you have suggested: three one-hour sessions in our riding, a ten-minute presentation per group followed by questions. As I said, it would be quite easy to discuss details for each and every location.

I will be available to discuss this with you Sunday evening or afternoon.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

I understand, but I've been advised by the clerk--which is why this has come to light this morning--that we can't wait until Sunday evening to advise people how long they're going to speak, and so on. The clerk needs to do that this week so she can pass on that message to them.

Also, Mr. Blais, you have put forward 23 witnesses, and we have a three-hour session. So we need to determine whether we're going to do three one-hour sessions with 10 minutes each, or two 90-minute sessions with 20 minutes each, so we can give some guidance to the table people here and make sure that everybody's aware of what we're doing.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

From the start, I have said I am available to speak with you or the clerk. When the clerk speaks with you, I would appreciate it if the microphone were on. This will avoid misunderstandings.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

That's fine, but what I have to say I don't mind saying.

Mr. Keddy.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Mr. Chairman, I realize the challenge you and the clerk have in order to give the witnesses some adequate time to present their cases and the parliamentarians adequate time to hear them. But if you've got that many witnesses, it doesn't matter if you have three or if you have three hundred, you still can't give them more than 20 minutes to present. Otherwise, there is no time left for questions. So I don't know why it needs any further discussion, and it's the chair's decision, really.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Mr. Keddy.

Mr. MacAulay.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Monsieur Blais indicated quite clearly that he understood that it was 10 minutes for each hour for a presentation. That's what I understood it to be, and I think that's what the committee understands it to be, so that's what we'll do.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Okay. Ten, and in the case of it running....

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

And if it's an hour and a half, it's 20.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Okay.

Mr. Matthews.

[Bill Matthews, Liberal, Random—Burin—St. George's, NL]

I don't think I need to belabour the point. I think Mr. MacAulay covered it off. If Mr. Blais has 23 witnesses coming, I'm sure he understands the logistics and he'll organize it such that they will conform with the presentation time, whether it be 10 minutes or 20 minutes. I have no doubt that will unfold okay, based upon what Mr. Blais just said.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I could have somebody at the table who might speak, but it could be support. I'm sure Monsieur Blais is doing the same thing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

I don't care if there are 20 at the table. The thing is that it would....

I'm sorry, Mr. Byrne, I didn't mean to cut you off. You had something?

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Yes, I think we need to think this through.

First of all, on the issue of whether or not you can receive advice from the clerk open to the purview of the committee, Mr. Chair, you receive advice from the clerk and you decide whether you follow that advice or not. I don't think it's really relevant to the committee members what exactly that advice is. And I'd rather allow you to have a relationship with the clerk whereby you can receive advice without it being necessarily broadcast.

But on the more important issue, I value my membership on this particular committee, and I value the reputation of the committee itself. Let's call a spade a shovel here. At 23 witnesses for 10 minutes, you have 50 seconds, basically, or a minute and 10 seconds for opening presentations, and then you have two minutes and 20 seconds for questions and answers from each of the witnesses.

I'm sure we're not creating a circumstance here whereby witnesses are appearing with unrealistic expectations of what exactly it is the committee is going to be able to hear from them and receive from them, because at the end of the day, I'm of the belief that our committee's reputation gets sullied if they do come with unrealistic expectations, if there is a belief by any of them that they're going to get five or 10 minutes with the committee—all 23 of them or 12 of them in the case of Acadie—Bathurst.

[An hon. member]

Agreed.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

And I would expect this discipline in members from this party and from the other side. If the committee were travelling to my particular constituency, I'd want to have 100 witnesses appear, but I'd know at the end of the day I'd be doing them a huge disservice if I created an expectation within them that each and every one of them would have a reasonable opportunity to be heard, knowing that is not necessarily the case.

I'll leave it at that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Okay, thank you.

Mr. Kamp, you have the final word.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

I would prefer that we move on, and if this requires further discussion we can do it following our session with the witnesses.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

I just want to clarify now to make sure everybody is clear. If we're going into your area on the trip, you can decide whether you want to have three one-hour sessions or two one-and-a-half-hour sessions. That's up to each member. Whatever you want to do, advise the clerk of what you would like to do.

In the case of the three one-hour sessions, we'll do 10-minute presentations and 50 minutes of questions. In the case of the two one-and-a-half hour sessions, we'll do 20-minute presentations with an hour and 10 minutes for the question rounds.

Thank you very much.

Just before we welcome our witnesses, if there are any amendments we want to make to the bill we are discussing today, the clerk would like to have them by tomorrow at the latest in order to prepare them for our Thursday meeting on clause-by-clause. So anybody who wants to make any amendments should have them in the clerk's hands tomorrow. Don't show up here Thursday morning with an amendment. It won't be accepted. Or maybe a more democratic way of putting it is that we'll have a debate over whether it'll be accepted.

I'd like to welcome our witnesses here this morning. We're sorry for that short interlude, but we had some committee business that I was afraid we might get sidetracked on.

I would like to once again welcome you here. I would ask that you introduce yourselves and the organization you're part of to the committee first. My understanding is that our first witness will be from the Bruce Coast Lighthouse Partners. So I would ask the four of you to introduce yourselves first.

Thank you very much.

[Everdina Toxopéus, Chair, Bruce Coast Lighthouse Partners]

Good morning. My name is Ina Toxopéus, or Everdina Toxopéus. I represent the Bruce Coast Lighthouse Partners and Cabot Head Lighthouse as well. I'm the chair of both committees.

Chairman and honourable members of the committee, I appreciate the ability to come before you to point out my case for why the lighthouse bill should be passed.

Our lighthouses are very important to all of us here, on all coasts, and to the Great Lakes. They are part of our architectural heritage. They are individually unique. They are survivors of the now fast-disappearing public architecture of the 19th century, from imperial towers—concrete towers or wooden stand-alone towers—two of which in the Great Lakes have fine buttresses, to towers built at the side of a house, or extending from the middle of the house or roof line, to one on Lake Erie that looks like the Parthenon in Greece. Cabot Head, for instance, has cedar eavestroughing, hand-made metal down spouts, shiplap board siding, a rock and rubble foundation, and board and bead along the staircases. The uniqueness of our lighthouses brings present-day tourists and connects them with our architectural heritage. The lighthouses are therefore an important tourist attraction.

The lighthouses were erected to safeguard ships and sailors in days gone by. They are at the heart of the marine history of Lake Huron and Georgian Bay in our Great Lakes, as well as both of our coasts. I'm not sure if we have any on our north coast. Our lighthouses are central to the dramatic stories of shipwrecks and rescues that are told on our coasts and the Great Lakes. They're a reminder of the first great commercial corridors of Canada. Canada was explored through these corridors. The lights still serve as a beacon of safety for those who sail our waters, even today, either commercial or pleasure vessels—and the latter even more so today. The volunteers who staff two of our lighthouses up in the peninsula have been involved in helping tourists who've had the misfortune of being stranded on an island, or having had to look for lost ones at Cabot Head.

Lighthouses have a fundamental connection to local communities. Their keepers were frequently recruited from local families. Many of these families returned with their grandchildren, or children, to recount stories of their time, or grandpa's time, spent at the lighthouse. Local communities see lighthouses as belonging to them, regarding them as essential features of the community landscape.

Lighthouses have a universal appeal. Just look at some of the publications on the Internet, such as by Bruce County. Our brochures are all centred around the lighthouse. The romance of their setting and their history captures the interest of many in the public. Visiting them takes one along scenic roads, or on a boat cruise, or tour. Visitors can view the lights and their museums, swim, picnic, and take in the walking tours, or just sit and dream.

They are now important local tourist attractions. The Municipality of Northern Bruce Peninsula depends heavily on tourism, with most of the businesses in Tobermory directly related to tourism.

This municipality is home to two national parks, Fathom Five being the very first marine park in the area—or in Canada, I think. It's a UNESCO biosphere, or part thereof. The Bruce Trail, the longest footpath in Canada, runs the length of the peninsula, and our lights are an integral part of that trail. Bruce County's lights are grouped into a tour, showcasing different aspects of our lights: the development of the lighthouses, their local history, the style of life that their keepers used to have, shipwrecks, local lumber and fishing industries. All of these aspects are represented at our lights.

The Bruce Coast Lighthouse Partners works closely with the Bruce County Museum in Southampton to improve and expand this product, giving the tourists a greater educational experience. We're now working on our newest product for the Bruce Coast Lighthouse Partners: educational packages that the museum in Southampton can give to children. If you take the lighthouse tour, you start with one lighthouse that gives the past history of lighted lights, which Cabot Head does. Flowerpot Island doesn't have a light station because all it has left is the keeper's cottage, and the other lights have their own specific theme, all related back to the Bruce County light museum.

Cabot Head and Flowerpot have an assistant lighthouse keepers program through which volunteers, in our case, pay to stay at the lighthouse or station and work wherever they are needed, usually at meeting and greeting the visitors.

Cabot Head alone received over 10,000 visitors last year. We have nine lights in Bruce County alone, six on the peninsula and five within the Municipality of Northern Bruce Peninsula, home to two national parks. Cove Island, Flowerpot and Big Tub lights are within the Fathom Five Marine Park, Cove Island's imperial tower being the oldest and the most complete site.

Tour boats in Tobermory, two big ones and two Zodiacs, are kept busy in the summertime taking people to and from Flowerpot Island. The Chi-Cheemaun passes by Cove Island light, in three seasons daily, to and from Manitoulin Island and Tobermory.

The lights are an essential ingredient in the promotion of regional tourism, adding greatly to the local economy. Bruce County's logo for tourist signs on the highway is a lighthouse. Bruce County has 854 kilometres of coastlines, and our lights are identified through the Ministry of Tourism product development process as a core trip motivator for tourism and development.

We have a strong connection with Michigan, as Michigan residents have a total of 240 lighthouse sites. Although visits from the United States were down in Ontario last year, they were up by almost 40% in Bruce County.

Bruce Coast Lighthouse Partners are celebrating the years of light with the celebration of the 150th year of the imperial towers. Our celebration will take place over the summers of 2008 and 2009.

Cove Island is a complete site, as I said before, located in Fathom Five Marine Park, Canada's first underwater park.

In 2006 Bruce County hosted the International Lighthouse Conference, and this year when we did that, Bruce County produced a guidebook with the lights in the back section. This year, in celebration of the history of the lights and the towers, our guidebook is again doing a good section on the lights, a little bit more extensive, and it's in French on the Bruce County website. I can give you the website, if you wish.

Bruce County produced a PBS show and has done three shows on the Bruce County lights alone, and those were carried usually in the American border states. The new Georgian Bay circle tour, which is a new initiative in Ontario, actively promotes 32 lights out of the 50 sites around Georgian Bay alone, six of which are imperial towers, two of which are in Grey--Bruce, with a total of seven sites on or near the Bruce Peninsula as it is. So you can see our lights are an integral part of the tourism industry in our area for both the county and the municipality of Northern Bruce.

I thank you for your time.