Evidence of meeting #24 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 39th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was structures.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director, Policy and Government Relations Branch, National Historic Sites Directorate, Parks Canada Agency
No, if the structures are included, that increases the costs; if they are removed, that reduces the costs.
Bloc
Director, Policy and Government Relations Branch, National Historic Sites Directorate, Parks Canada Agency
Yes, that's it.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
A related building is nevertheless an object; it has to be maintained.
Director, Policy and Government Relations Branch, National Historic Sites Directorate, Parks Canada Agency
Yes, but there are fewer buildings than structures. So the word “structures” is more inclusive.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
All right, but the question is by how much the costs will be reduced if the bill is amended to replace structure with “related building”.
Director, Policy and Government Relations Branch, National Historic Sites Directorate, Parks Canada Agency
All right.
Director, Divestiture, Real Property, Safety and Security, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The reduction would be between $24 and $65 million.
Doug Tapley Manager, Cabinet Affairs, Parks Canada Agency
Because we remove the access structures.
Bloc
Director, Divestiture, Real Property, Safety and Security, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Because it's impossible for us to establish exact figures without knowing the criteria and number of lighthouses, as well as which lighthouses will be designated. Some lighthouses in Nova Scotia have no structures. So the cost is less than in the case of structures in British Columbia, which are located on islands and which require an access site for a helicopter or boat. We can reduce the costs if we use modern techniques rather than heritage techniques to do the maintenance and things of that kind.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
Whether we like it or not, there will be costs, won't there?
Director, Policy and Government Relations Branch, National Historic Sites Directorate, Parks Canada Agency
Even if we delete structures from the bill, there will definitely be costs associated with their maintenance, but they aren't costs associated with the bill. As the bill is based on heritage value, the designation of a lighthouse under this bill means that we must maintain it in a certain way, which increases maintenance costs. In other words, if we have to do the work in a particular way, it costs more than if we do it in a way—
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
The maintenance of a non-heritage building entails certain costs, whereas costs automatically increase if it's a designated heritage building. Is that correct?
Director, Policy and Government Relations Branch, National Historic Sites Directorate, Parks Canada Agency
Yes.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
What will happen to the structures? Are they completely abandoned in that case?
Director, Policy and Government Relations Branch, National Historic Sites Directorate, Parks Canada Agency
No. The act provides for the obligation to maintain the designated lighthouses. However, there has to be access in order to maintain them. Even if the structures themselves are not designated, they have to be maintained, but in a non-heritage manner.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
That's a minimum. That's what you're doing now. That will change absolutely nothing to what you're doing now.
Director, Policy and Government Relations Branch, National Historic Sites Directorate, Parks Canada Agency
Yes, that's correct.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
Just on a related question, I notice in the act it talks about the minister being the minister responsible for parks. A lot of the lighthouses right now fall under the purview of the coast guard, which is under the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans. I've never asked this question in all the years I've been here. How does that process work for transfer of responsibility of a lighthouse, say in Whitehead, Nova Scotia, that is deemed heritage by the minister for parks or the person responsible for that? How do they make that transfer from DFO over to Parks Canada? Is it is a cumbersome process, or is it done fairly quickly?
Director, Policy and Government Relations Branch, National Historic Sites Directorate, Parks Canada Agency
The minister responsible for Parks Canada is the minister responsible for the act, which means he is responsible for the administration of the act. It does not imply and the act doesn't say that all lighthouses that are designated should be transferred to Parks Canada. So coast guard would remain the custodian of lighthouses that were designated that it owned.
It means Parks Canada is responsible for running the program, for making sure the petitions are received and evaluated and the minister makes decisions about designation, and in assisting the department in any conservation, assisting in terms of professional expertise to the department in terms of conservation work that is done on designated buildings and on conditions related to sale or disposal.
Bloc
Yvon Lévesque Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
Good morning, madam, gentlemen. If I understand correctly, when a lighthouse receives the heritage designation, it's transferred from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans to Parks Canada. No. All right. Then I'll continue.
Once the lighthouse is designated heritage, do you reassign it, or do you let a volunteer administration manage it? As for the words “building” and “structure”, structures include the platforms to enable a helicopter to land, the wharves to enable a boat to land, the roads to enable visitors to reach the monument.
Once the lighthouse is designated heritage, do you have an obligation to maintain the infrastructure, or will the province or agency responsible for it have to maintain the structures while you maintain the buildings? That's what I would like to understand.
An amount of $65 million has been budgeted. Did that include the structures?
