Oh, oh!
Evidence of meeting #25 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was boats.
Evidence of meeting #25 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was boats.
3:35 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Fabian Manning
Welcome back.
I want to welcome our second set of witnesses. For those who may not have been here at the start of our last session, we are the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans for the Parliament of Canada. We're travelling in Atlantic Canada and Quebec over the next four to five days as part of an ongoing study we're doing into the small craft harbours program. Our purpose is to hear from harbour authorities--and in this case we have additional guests--and to hear the concerns you have with regard to funding for harbours, anything that may be required to assist you as volunteers on the harbour authorities, and any and all things that relate to the development of your harbours.
I realize we have people here from different harbour authorities. Perhaps you could expand on the harbour program in general, not necessarily mentioning your own harbour, because we're studying the whole small craft harbours program.
For the witnesses, the members of the committee are comprised of the four parties in Parliament: the Liberals, the Conservatives, the Bloc Québécois, and the NDP. Our purpose is to present a unified voice back to the House on ways to enhance the small craft harbours program. Most of the committee members have small craft harbours in their ridings and are quite familiar with the workings of them and with the concerns. Our goal is to try to find some of the issues out there and try to address them.
In addition, for the members of the committee, Mr. Pat Curran here is the executive director of the Irish Loop Development Board, which covers part of the southern shore at St. Mary's Bay; it's an area that has focused heavily on the fishery for many, many years. I just wanted to put a different flavour into the conversation, from the development board's point of view. The others are members of harbour authorities and they'll introduce themselves as they go along, I'm sure, and who they represent.
With that, I'd like to open the floor....
Mr. Simms has a housekeeping item he'd like to mention.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
Thank you. I was going to leave this till the end, but I'll probably forget.
For the benefit of those in our travelling road show, we're going to Gander tonight, and for those of you who have Roger's cellphone service or a BlackBerry, it doesn't work, so when you get on that plane, there's no coverage in Gander. You will not get reception again until you reach Charlottetown. Bell and Telus are fine.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB
They don't tell you that in those Danny Williams commercials.
3:50 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
Well, you'll have to stop and talk to him.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Fabian Manning
Mr. Simms might be able to put in a word for you there.
Who would like to start? Dave, you look like a fellow who'd like to start.
3:50 p.m.
Dave Johnson Harbour Authority of Old Perlican
I don't mind.
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen and distinguished guests. My name is Dave Johnson and I'm the president of the Old Perlican Harbour Authority. I'm also a fish harvester.
Old Perlican is located on the eastern shores of Trinity Bay and it has one of the finest safe harbours in the area. The history of Old Perlican has always been linked to the harbour and to the fishery, since the time of its first inhabitants. The primary activity within the town is centred on fishing and marine-related commerce.
After experiencing the economic downturn established by the cod moratorium, the harbour at Old Perlican is once again returning to its former prosperity, due largely to the shrimp and crab fisheries. The economic viability of this area will depend in part on how well Old Perlican develops and expands its fishing and processing.
In 1999, the number of fishing vessels using Old Perlican as a home port or a landing port was estimated to be 83. Out of the 83 vessels, 63 were under 45 feet, while there were only 20 over 45 feet. The landing total in 1999 of all species was only three million pounds.
A study done Harris & Associates Ltd. in 1999 stated that in order for the port of Old Perlican and the processing plants in the area to survive, major changes had to take place. These changes include the development of a tie-up area within the harbour but separate from the off-loading areas, the need to deepen the channel leading into the harbour as well as specific areas inside the harbour, and the need to provide adequate berthage and winter storage for the boats. Since this report was released in 1999, small craft harbours has spent approximately $6.7 million to improve the harbour at Old Perlican in order to accommodate the changes in the fishing industry. A lot of the changes suggested by the Harris report have been done, some of the changes will be completed in 2008, and other changes will require funding in the future.
During the 2007 season, a total of 17 million pounds of raw material was landed on the wharf in Old Perlican, as compared to three million pounds in 1999--an increase of 14 million pounds in only eight years.
Out of the 180 vessels that used Old Perlican as a home port or a landing port in 2007, 98 vessels were under 45 feet, as compared to 63 in 1992; 82 vessels ranged from 46 feet to 92 feet, as compared to 20 in 1999.
The three processing plants in Old Perlican currently employ approximately 675 to 700 people on a seasonal basis from all over Newfoundland and Labrador. I'd also like to state that in 2007 Quin-Sea Fisheries processed 24.7 million pounds of raw material. Also, I estimate that Quinlan Brothers Ltd., which uses pelagics--cod, herring, mackerel--processed another 10 million pounds, approximately. There was fish also trucked in.
It is important to realize that if funding were not available from small craft harbours to do these improvements to the Old Perlican harbour, the town of Old Perlican would be another community looking to the federal government for make-work projects, seeing a diminishing population instead of being the prosperous community it is today.
I'd also like to state that last year we had nine people move to Old Perlican for three to four months from Nipper's Harbour--to work. So it's soiree of P.E.I. There's a lot of work being created.
As well, infrastructure that has been done in Old Perlican stays in Old Perlican. It's not washed away; it wears out. I've never seen anything...and we've had storms, believe you me.
We have a list of fish buyers located at Old Perlican: Quinlan Brothers Ltd., Quin-Sea Fisheries Ltd., Ocean Choice International Inc., P. Janes and Sons Ltd., Independent Fish Harvesters Inc., Green Seafoods Ltd., and Woodman Sea Products.
We have a community listing for boats using Old Perlican as a landing port: the Northern Peninsula from Port Saunders to St. Anthony, the Baie Verte Peninsula from La Scie to Nipper's Harbour, Fogo Island to Seldom, Catalina in the Bonavista peninsula, and the Avalon Peninsula from Dildo to Renews.
Old Perlican is the harbour name, but in reality we're servicing half the island. This is all black on white. The documentation is with DFO. And Gary can attest to these numbers.
Thank you.
3:55 p.m.
Herb Butt Harbour Authority of Carbonear
My name is Herb Butt. I am a director with the Harbour Authority of Carbonear.
My interest in the authority was created, I believe, as a result of my father being a fisherman. I fished with him as a teen and developed a liking for the ocean while fishing. I enjoy the ocean today by kayaking out of many harbours around the island. Most of the harbours seem to be well funded, having been made safe and efficient with the construction of breakwaters, etc.
Otherwise, I became interested due to the feeling that it was not appropriate for fisherpersons to have to tie up their boats three abreast of each other in Carbonear. This is in contrast to some other harbours, where they have excess mooring spaces available for fishing boats due to federal government spending.
It was said--this comes from talking with the fishermen--that much of the infrastructure in need of repair was as a result of sea agitation. The public wharf was the fishermen's main concern, and they supported the newly formed harbour authority in having a breakwater constructed to prevent further erosion.
I was involved in the Carbonear Island development strategy in August 2004. It was a comprehensive study to provide strategic direction and a rational process to develop Carbonear Island as a national historic events site. The strategy did include the Carbonear waterfront and the public wharf as being very important in developing this tourism destination.
Now, knowing that a breakwater was common to two very important areas of development for Carbonear and the Carbonear area, my competitive side realized that Carbonear had as much and in some cases more to offer than other communities around the island that have received federal funding for breakwaters. Today, along with the other members of the harbour authority, we know that federal funding for a breakwater to create a safe and efficient harbour would be a very secure investment. The investment would be diverse, in that the breakwater would serve, most importantly, the fisherpersons and then tourism, along with recreational boat users, and it could also be somewhat of a centre for members of the general public.
The authority was incorporated in the year 2002, after fisherpersons and recreational boat owners had a meeting with the small craft harbours people and John Efford, the candidate for Bonavista—Trinity—Placentia, who supported the forming of a harbour authority. During this meeting, it was said by the small craft harbours people that:
It's the Harbour Authorities who are to assist in the planning and prioritization of maintenance and future development within the Harbour.”
This comment supports our proposal. It is clear that federal funding for the Carbonear breakwater will help fulfill that development role of the harbour authority.
The harbour authority is made up of seven directors elected for a two-year term. We encourage that the directors be made up of mainly fisherpersons, then recreational boat owners, and finally, members of the general public. To involve more people, we are now moving towards adding to our membership at next month's annual meeting and election of directors.
The harbour authority has a good working relationship with the small craft harbours program in operating and maintaining the fishing premises. Since its start, the harbour authority has brought in town water and electricity to the wharf. The wharf has been partially paved, and a used oil containment system along with an oil spill boom and cleanup kit are on the premises.
We have leased from the small craft harbours program the public wharf--it was built prior to 1960, and it may require structural work on the east side--which is one of the few schooner wharves of its size, in excess of 40 feet by 300 feet, around the island. The wharf is frequented by many large vessels, including the coast guard, and it may have seen the royal yacht Britannia come all the way into the wharf had it not been for security reasons.
The size of the wharf made it possible and convenient to have local fabricated items for the oil industry taken away by barges, and now with the fishery involving larger boats, the wharf is becoming even more of a valued asset. Apart from the safety issues of now having boats tied up three abreast, the west side of the wharf offers secure moorage with little sea agitation, while the east side is not secure enough to be used most of the time.
We need a breakwater, as designed, mainly to prevent further erosion to the wharf, at the same time making the east side of the wharf safe and secure for mooring so as to eliminate congestion on the west side. The breakwater would also protect other infrastructure on the east side--which is very necessary to fisherpersons--such as additional boat mooring, boat storage, a slipway, a fish off-loading station, and a building containing storage, an ice room, a fish buying and selling area, an office, washrooms, and a kitchen. Based on the current design, the breakwater will extend beyond the wharf approximately 10%, thereby protecting, to some degree, infrastructure on the west side, including fishermen's wharves, the fabrication plant, other private developments, and Rorke Stores, a registered historic structure.
In early 2003, the authority's founding directors communicated to Mr. William Goulding, regional director of small craft harbours, the reasons, in detail, for the need for a breakwater. Minister Efford, who we worked with for only a short period of time due to the turning of the political tide, saw the small craft harbours program do a sounding survey. The survey was completed later in 2003 and determined the design, location, and cost of the breakwater.
Since 2006 we have had four meetings with our Avalon MP, Fabian Manning. All the meetings could be summed up fairly equitably by what was said by a news journalist as a result of our October 2006 meeting, when the fisheries minister, Loyola Hearn, also attended. It was said that the proposal for a new breakwater did not receive any new money, but it did get a high-level endorsement.
Support for our proposal has been by way of letters from the town of Carbonear and nearby towns of Victoria, Salmon Cove, Perry's Cove, and Freshwater; the local fish plant and other shoreline property owners; Carbonear mayor Sam Slade and councillors; representatives of business, heritage, and tourism; and a petition signed by several hundred members of the general public.
Thank you.
4:05 p.m.
Warren Parsons Harbour Authority of Harbour Grace
Good day. I'm Warren Parsons, chairman of the Harbour Authority of Harbour Grace.
I wasn't quite prepared for this, because I was gone out of the province for a few days with some personal matters. I got back on Friday and I got a fast call to attend this. I appreciate that, and thank you very much.
Harbour Grace has a long-standing history in the fishery. We at one time had a fish plant there. It was built back in the war years, back in the 1940s. It stood there and employed an awful lot of people, in fact 600 or 700 people, and probably more at times, right up until 1992, with the collapse of the cod fishery. At that time that just fell by the wayside and was torn down. Since then there has been a shrimp plant built there for off-loading vessels. Last year, for that shrimp plant, there was in excess of 100 million pounds of shrimp landed at that facility.
In those times we had all these small communities. I come from a small community. I don't belong right to Harbour Grace; I belong to Bryants Cove, 350 people. We had our own wharf. I am a fisherman myself. But due to storm damage back in the 1980s the wharf started to deteriorate, and finally in the late 1980s it was gone. We tried to seek funding, but we were unsuccessful. We were told by small craft harbours directorate that it would all be consolidated into a larger port and we would have better facilities than what we had at home.
In that case, the people of the day started....There was a spot on the south side of Harbour Grace, which was really a pond. That's all it was. People used to run their fishing boats in there years ago to get away from storms. What they called fishing boats then was a trap skiff. At that time we started to get money from ACOA, and small craft harbours directorate gave us some money. We finally developed it into what is called Admiral's Marina now. At that time, when it started to get going well, we had 33 fishing boats at that place. We had zero pleasure craft and ten transient vessels that used to travel to Harbour Grace. Right now, in 2008, we have 50 fishing vessels, 45 pleasure craft, and there are at least 50 transient vessels that will travel through, off-loading their product and seeking safe shelter in our harbour.
When they started the crab fishery back in 1988 and all these small boats of years ago of 20 feet or 22 feet started to get into crab in 1996, they went up to 38 feet or 40 feet. Since that the government has changed some rules.
Right now, the smaller vessels on the inner bays are allowed to go to 40 feet. The vessels offshore and outside are allowed to go 90 feet, which puts an awful strain on us fellows, as chairmen of harbour authorities, to try to keep up with accommodating those vessels. The sizes have not just doubled; in some cases the size is ten times what it was. A few years ago, or even back last year, you could take a 22-foot vessel and tie it to a floating dock, but those people now are moving into vessels up to 40 feet, and floating docks do not accommodate those vessels anymore. So right now we're caught on a limb trying to get wharf space. You need wharf space for those vessels.
Right now in Harbour Grace we have seven companies that buy fish over the wharf, and they employ approximately six or seven people each during the summer months, plus graders and monitors. Our landings at our fishing facility last year totalled approximately eight million pounds of product. We accommodate right now at our facility in Harbour Grace vessels right from Spaniard's Bay through to Lower Island Cove.
When I took over this harbour authority--I became chairman here four years ago--we saw the need for more wharf space. Everything was maxed out. We were starting to get maxed out with what we had. It was getting filled up. I met with the former minister in the other administration, Mr. John Efford, and he agreed with us, that we definitely needed something. So we sat down with him and we said we needed to build another boat basin to accommodate the larger vessels west of the Admiral's Marina. Mr. Efford gave his commitment for funding, so we started off and we got the first phase done, but there's still an awful lot of work that needs to be done with that facility.
I understand it's not all going to be done in one year, but we certainly need four or five years to get it done. We certainly need someone from the government and someone from small craft harbours directorate to sit down and say, “This is our plan right here”, and we certainly need someone to say, “You will get funding for that plan, so much a year”. We know every year that we're going to be building and increasing our wharf space and accommodation for our vessels.
Right now we've got one part of that wharf in. We've got 140 feet, I think, plus 60 feet American. Really, when you look at 140 feet, well, you can get two boats abreast. You've got approximately enough room, if the vessels are not 90 feet, to get eight vessels at the wharf. But if they start coming in with 90-foot vessels things are going to change an awful lot in this fishery. There will be people with those vessels, and we definitely need more money to do this with.
That is my biggest concern right now. Small craft harbours directorate seem to be giving us a little bit here and a little bit there, something to try to keep us happy. But I think if you take a project on, you should turn around and make a commitment to that harbour authority: we will take this on and finish it with a plan. No one is asking for one year upfront, all the money, but certainly there is a need to sit down and say, “You will get what you want if it's approved”, and do it in four or five years, and you'd have a guarantee that there would be so much work done every year. At least you'd know what you're going to do in the year coming.
Thank you.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Judge Pat Curran Executive Director, Irish Loop Development Board
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. On behalf of the Irish Loop Development Board, I'd like to welcome you to Newfoundland and Labrador, and particularly the Avalon region. We wish you the best of luck in your deliberations and I hope you enjoy your stay in the province.
Just to put my region in some context, it begins in Bay Bulls on the southern shore, and you just heard from the mayor of Bay Bulls and the chair of the local harbour authority there, and runs down along the southern shore and over through St. Mary's Bay and carries in as far as Riverhead, both of them with bookends that are DFO harbour infrastructure facilities, and a number of other facilities in between. We have a population of about 8,000 people in the region. We have five crab plants and two other groundfish operations.
My purpose today, really, is to impress upon all committee members the significance of the Government of Canada's investment in marine infrastructure to the coastal people of our province. I speak today from the perspective of an economic development agency, but I also serve as a municipal councillor in the town of Witless Bay, which is a traditional fishing community with a crab plant, and we also have a DFO facility there.
The development organization I represent is one of 20 regional economic development boards in the province. Our objective is to foster economic development in our region. I can say that in my own region, the Irish Loop, much of our future growth remains dependent upon the fishery and the sea, and I appreciate the opportunity to present our unique perspective to this group today.
When I was young and growing up in Fermeuse on the southern shore, I could look out my front window at a fish plant that had a government wharf attached and I could look out my back window and there was another facility there as well. My mother wouldn't allow me on the wharf in the back because there was always a concern that you might fall over and not be recovered.
Suffice it to say that the fishery then was much different from what it is today. The focus was on cod. Operations were family based, and as you've already heard, they were generally run out of smaller vessels. More often than not, those enterprises used their own facilities for berthage, at least, if not for off-loading. There was a time when fishing stages and such premises lined the coastline in our communities. That isn't the case today.
When it came time to off-load, these vessels would generally come alongside the wharf, more often than not owned by the plant owner. As I said, today's fishery is quite different. It's conducted from larger vessels that require larger berths and deeper water, meaning these traditional family-owned facilities are no longer adequate. Many of them have gone into decline.
The point I wish to make is that the effect of the moratorium in 1992, rather than diminishing the need for investment in harbour infrastructure, has instead increased the demand on DFO facilities. Larger vessels mean larger facilities are needed to off-load and to tie up in safety.
We prepared the region's first strategic plan back in 1998, and we emphasized an investment in fisheries infrastructure within that plan. We have continued our partnership with industry over the years--we maintain a seat for harvesters on our board--and we have created an inshore fisheries network to continue to provide a forum for harvesters in our region's strategic economic plan.
I relate the investments made in fishing infrastructure to any other investment in infrastructure made by the federal or provincial governments. For our harvesters and our processors in my area, the government wharf is akin to the Trans-Canada Highway or Pearson airport; it is a critical piece in the transportation and production chain, and it's a good investment. Increasingly, these investments are made in partnership with local communities through local harbour authorities, where government and community stakeholders come together to provide leadership and support in meeting local fisheries development and, by implication, regional economic development needs.
Speaking from the perspective of someone involved in economic and community development, this represents a very unique partnership and a model of cooperation between the Government of Canada and rural communities. I would be remiss if I didn't take an opportunity to mention the good work that is being done by your officials out there in the field, people such as Bill Goulding and Gary Sooley. I concur with some of the remarks that were made before the break. In my experience, at least, when you call these people, they are there, and they maintain excellent relationships with the community groups and organizations they work with.
In my region today there are over 20 facilities managed by various local harbour authorities. They continue to serve many vessels, and they offer a prospect for a more sustainable future for our communities. There is a trend, although it's not the primary focus; these facilities are increasingly important in relation to broader economic development. We do see an emerging pleasure and recreational boating sector that provides an additional range of users, which leads to new sources of revenue for local harbour authorities. Based on a recent assessment presently being concluded by my board, I expect this trend to continue into the future.
DFO's support for harbour infrastructure represents a unique relationship with the coastal people of this country, and the support provided in partnership with local harbour authorities and users is a very tangible expression of the continued significance and importance of the Government of Canada in meeting the needs of rural Canadians. Continued investment in harbour and fisheries infrastructure is needed now more than ever as the fishery in our province continues its transition into a more modern industry with an emphasis on larger vessels and enhanced quality.
On behalf of my board and the fishing interests we represent, it is my hope that these remarks and the discussion we have afterwards will contribute to a greater understanding of the importance of this program so that together we may ensure that this valuable investment is continued into the future and perhaps enhanced so that we can meet the long-term needs of this very valuable industry in Newfoundland and Labrador.
Thank you very much.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Fabian Manning
Thank you, Pat, and thank you to all our witnesses.
The process, so that our witnesses understand now, is that we allow a certain period of time for each of the parties to ask questions. We start off with the Liberal Party for 10 minutes, the Bloc for seven, the NDP for five, and the Conservatives for 10, and then if we need a second round, we allow five minutes each. Basically we try to keep to the time as much as we can. We have 10 minutes now, and I believe Mr. Simms is going to begin the questions.
Mr. Simms.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, guests. Thank you, to some of you, for the tours that we had today. They were certainly informative. As Mr. Matthews pointed out, they showed various stages of progress and what has been successful and not so successful.
I want to start with you, Mr. Parsons, because you said--and did I get this right?--you have 50 fishing vessels registered and 45 pleasure craft as regulars. Is that correct?
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
What kind of revenue do you get from the pleasure craft? Just describe the relationship between the two, because sometimes in regards to funding, one agency.... In my riding ACOA has made an investment in the pleasure craft infrastructure such as at Lewisporte. But at the same time you have small craft harbours. Can you talk about the relationship between the two as far as funding is concerned and the revenue that you generate from these two types? Anybody else is free to jump in afterwards.
Mr. Curran, perhaps I could get you to comment on that as well from an economic development perspective regarding pleasure craft--because I see some of the pictures here with yachts coming in and that sort of thing--and juxtapose that with the fishing industry.
4:20 p.m.
Harbour Authority of Harbour Grace
A few years ago when they built Admiral's Marina--that's the facility we have on the south side of Harbour Grace--there were very few pleasure craft around then, and they were basically speed boats or something that people owned, which were tied to the side of their own wharf on their own property. So when we built this here, I guess it was built through ACOA money--plus small craft harbours got some. But the fishermen were the backbone of it all.
We saw the need to get everybody involved to try to find funding to run this after it was constructed. Our fee structure is pretty simple. We treat everybody alike in one way when it comes to the fee structure. We charge by the length of the vessel that you own. We charge $15 per foot to the end of the vessel. So if you have a 20-foot vessel at the wharf, you would pay $300. If you had a 50-foot vessel, you'd pay $750, and so on. The fishermen do the same thing. They pay by the same structure as that.
The only difference with fishermen is that if they land their product back at our facility we will give them half a cent a pound back, up to a maximum of $500, let's say. They are subsidizing their amount down, whereas the owner of the pleasure craft will pay his full fee. He gets no subsidy at all. The fishermen do get a break on the fee structures, and they can come down to about $220 plus GST and HST. So that gives them a break.
Have I answered the question?
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
The fee structure is fine. I am wondering in general, with the revenue from both, how you are making out.
4:20 p.m.
Harbour Authority of Harbour Grace
We make enough here at the harbour authority to pay for the employee we have there. We employ her from now until after the fishing season is over, weekly, full-time up until the last of September. We generate enough funds to cover all of our overhead, plus also we put a good bit of money back into the little jobs that need to be done around the wharf so that we don't have to call on small craft harbours all the time for a little bit of money for everything. We take that out of our funds, and overall we have to keep up the regular maintenance too.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
Mr. Curran, can I get your comments on this?
4:25 p.m.
Executive Director, Irish Loop Development Board
As I think my remarks suggested, we're seeing a trend in relation to the significance of the recreational and pleasure boater to the potential sustainability of these harbour authorities. I think this is a trend you've seen. It's out there. I couldn't give you the revenue percentage, on a harbour authority by harbour authority basis, that comes from recreational pleasure craft, but I suspect it would be an interesting number to have, if we don't already have it.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL
Are you getting more interest? Do you see a substantial increase?