Fisheries Committee on April 18th, 2008

[Jacques Dufresne]

I would like to add something to what Stéphane just said. About three months ago, in Gaspé, we asked Transport Canada if we could use a small section about 30 feet wide by 300 feet long, which will never be used by large vessels because there is not enough water; there is only between 8 and 12 feet. This proposal was not analyzed; it was not even considered. All they did was to tell us what Transport Canada's policy is. I could send you the proposal, which was extremely simple and logical. Despite everything, it would appear that there won't be any place for us in future. It's rather dramatic.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Mr. Dufresne.

Mr. Lévesque.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

We have just seen the photos of the wharf in La Malbaie. This wharf is unusable. It must be demolished and a new one built because nothing fits under the cement slab. In order to be able to install other structures, everything must be demolished and a new wharf built.

[Anita Collin]

They drew up blueprints and specifications that were approved by the fishers. These blueprints proposed rockfill and other work. We were told that all fishers and Fisheries and Oceans had approved the project. I took these photos of the wharf from the side, because I did not want to take the risk of walking on it. If you go out in a boat, you can see that the tide comes right up under the wharf. There is nothing left. It is clear that this wharf must be demolished, because it is a hazard.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

If the wharf is not repaired, La Malbaie, L'Anse-à-Valleau and maybe also Rivière-au-Renard, I don't know how... Mr. Dufresne said that the wharf in Rivière-au-Renard appears to be in relatively good condition for the time being. If the wharf is not repaired or replaced, can your communities wait longer?

[Anita Collin]

Time is running out. They need to act urgently.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Your plant becomes obsolete without a wharf.

[Anita Collin]

Two plants would become obsolete, and that would be a shame. One of them is the oldest plant in eastern Canada, whereas the other one opened six or seven years ago. It would be a shame, because the employees who work there are young people. They are the next generation. There are several other businesses. I myself am a business owner, so I know what the situation is. The fishing season brings in more money, and that makes several businesses happy. The government takes but it does not give back.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you very much. That gives us excellent arguments to submit to the government as part of our recommendations, whether it be the Department of transports or Fisheries and Oceans Canada. We will know what to expect. In fact, these people are scheduled to testify before us shortly, I believe. We will certainly be asking them questions. We would like to have a copy of your applications and the way in which you submitted them when we meet with the representative of the Department of Transport. Thank you.

[Anita Collin]

Thank you for having come to listen to us.

Mr. Luc Harvey said to me earlier that he did not know what he would do in Gaspésie this evening.

Luc, why don't you visit La Malbaie. If it wasn't too cold, you could rent a diving suit and see for yourself under water the condition the wharf is in.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

I'm sure that's an invitation that Mr. Harvey will take under consideration.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Mr. Lévesque.

Mr. Stoffer, four minutes.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

We have heard in previous provinces that the relationship between harbour authorities and fishermen and local DFO people--those are the people on the ground--is actually pretty good. There's a good relationship. But what DFO is telling these fine folks is “Look, we hear you; we just don't have any money.” Is that the same sort of argument you're hearing here, in Quebec?

[Stéphane Morissette]

For aquaculture activities, I wish we had a harbour authority, but I don't have a wharf.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

I meant the other folks.

[Carmelle Mathurin]

In my region there is a fine fishing harbour and an iron wharf, but there are no boats. My father fishes crab, but he cannot land his catches in our wharf because there are now designated wharves. His boat is docked at l'Anse-à-Valleau, but he must land his catches in Cloridorme. We have a winch, and this wharf could be accessible, but there are no boats. The water is not deep enough. The owners of large vessels, for example, those measuring 65 feet, do not want to venture there, because they are the ones who must assume the risk in the case of damage. But we do have a fine fishing harbour.

You were discussing harbour authorities earlier. When there are not very many boats, individuals are the only ones who go fishing. For several years, they were only allowed to fish five cod per day, I believe. They were not even allowed to take their daily quota. When even small recreational boats can no longer tie up at the wharf, the income is negligible. With $2,000 in income per year, if we have to paint the wharf as well, that does not leave much money for the rest. We do what we can with what we have, but we can't do more.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Mr. Dufresne.

[Jacques Dufresne]

In 2001, we tabled an activity plan for the wharf in Rivière-au-Renard with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. We proposed a structure for the harbour authority with a view to continuity and economic development. That would have allowed us to go ahead with development and generate funds.

At the time, we were told to do whatever we wanted, but there was no funding. I do not think the problem was that there was no funding, but rather that it went against their doctrine to award any. They asked us to increase the amount of the fishers' contributions. In Rivière-au-Renard, there have been crises in the fishing industry for the past 10 years. The price of fish is going down and the price of gas is going up. The cost of licences is considerable. We do not want to take it upon ourselves to go cap in hand to the fishers to manage a wharf that does not belong to us.

Three months ago, we tabled the same proposal. We thought that these people would be ready to receive it. At first, we were told the same thing, that is to ask our fishers for money, but we refused to do so. So everyone went away to reflect.

If you want to obtain this document, Guy Descôteaux has it. Fisheries and Oceans in Gaspé may have it as well. It is a structural proposal. Of course, the wharf in Rivière-au-Renard is large and there are many opportunities. But when we table something like that, we are told that it is out of our hands because boats use the wharf. But that wharf is enormous. It could be used to generate two or three times the current income, provided we are given the opportunity to do so. But there does not seem to be much openness in that regard.

We asked if we could recover part of the money that they are saving, in order to have continuity and a structure that will be capable of managing a large operation, or an operation that shows promise.

As for the lack of funding, I imagine that budget envelopes have been cut, but over the past seven or eight years, there has been a conversion of funds which is somewhat difficult to understand. At first, the public servant was paid by Fisheries and Oceans. Shortly thereafter, we were allocated budget amounts, but the public servant's salary of $100,000 per year came out of those amounts. We cannot follow those things. And when they come to talk to us, it is from them to us. There is something to be done, because everyone is working in good faith, but...

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Mr. Dufresne.

Thank you, Mr. Stoffer.

Mr. Calkins.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

It's certainly an honour for me to be here in Gaspé today, in Mr. Blais's riding. It's a privilege for me to hear from you at this committee meeting.

I have a general question, but first I want to ask a couple of questions about aquaculture. They are fairly specific, so I'd like quick answers, if you can.

Has anybody in the aquaculture business, near the harbour authorities that would service the aquaculture industry and the various bays that aquaculture is working in right now, ever tried to get on the boards of the local harbour authorities? How often do those elections happen? And is there any representation from aquaculture fishers or whoever on harbour authorities?

[Stéphane Morissette]

In Carleton, we tried to create a harbour authority for the small spur wharf that houses two boats, but since it was too small, we did not. The problem is that we have no services, and thus there is no harbour authority.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Mr. Dufresne.

[Jacques Dufresne]

I think that with a bit of good will on the part of Fisheries and Oceans, the Rivière-au-Renard Harbour Authority could probably look after the Gaspé wharf, because it is considered commercial transport for the time being. However, something could be done there, provided we can get started.

The quickest thing to do would be to consult with the minister or the prime minister. That is my dream. I am convinced that you are capable of finding a solution to the issue of the Gaspé and Carleton wharves within one month. It is such a small thing.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

The next question I have, then, is for anybody to answer.

Generally speaking, I think we've seen that the trend in the 1980s and 1990s to form harbour authorities was based on goodwill. There obviously has not been enough funding from successive governments, whoever those happened to be, to address some of the challenges.

If the challenges were to be addressed, how best would we go forward from here? It's an open-ended question. What kind of model would you like to see? Would you like to see the status quo with more funding--i.e., little harbour authorities looking after one or two wharves? Would you like to see a different model from DFO insofar as doing more regional oversight--i.e., a DFO regional manager or business manager could help with some of the business planning and some of the administrative tasks, thereby freeing up volunteers to do other things? Or would you like to see a model whereby money was given directly to harbour authorities, in some type of a funding formula based on the size or the landing size or whatever—I'm just thinking hypothetically—whereby those harbour authorities had more direct access to ongoing money to make their own decisions and to be able to maybe leverage that money, whether through loans or whatever the case might be, to keep their wharves in good shape?

Is there any model there that seems to be a good idea for moving forward from what seems to be a fairly poor starting point?