Fisheries Committee on May 27th, 2008

[John Tidbury]

Can I just add to that? Volunteerism does work, as in Sointula, when you went there. That's a volunteer group over there. It depends on the community you're dealing with. In our case, the municipality works well with us in that way.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Mr. Kamp.

That will clear up this session.

I just want to remind Mr. Stoffer that everything is on record here. If you want to make burning boats a recommendation, it would go forward in the report. You need to add dark, stormy nights to it, according to your testimony earlier.

With that, I would just say thank you to all our witnesses for your time here today. It certainly added to our study.

We're now going to adjourn for five minutes or so to prepare our next list.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

I'm calling the meeting back to order.

Just to let our witnesses know, we're going to have the opportunity to call upon some of you to make opening remarks. Our process is very straightforward. After we receive some opening remarks—we like to give four to five minutes each for opening remarks—then we have an opportunity for a question and answer period, where we go round and each party of the committee has an opportunity to ask some questions. I'd say to you to feel comfortable; we're here to listen.

I'm not sure if all of you were here when we started the beginning of our last session, but we are the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans for the Parliament of Canada. We are in the process of conducting a study on behalf of the small craft harbours program of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. We have travelled to the east coast of Canada, and we're here this week hearing from people on the west coast. Certainly, even in our discussions thus far, while there are many similarities, there are many differences also—different concerns, different issues—and it's a learning experience for all of us on the committee. So we certainly welcome your input here today. We thank you for coming forward and participating in the hearings, and ask you to feel quite comfortable. Don't be worried about the mics in front of you. Just sit back as if you were at home in the living room having a chat with your best friend, and be quite comfortable.

When it comes time for some members of our committee to converse in French, you have the opportunity to don your earphones here, and English is channel one on your dial and French is channel two. I'm glad we're only dealing with two languages; I have a job to keep those straight. But certainly we'll advise you of that anyway and make sure everybody is aware. We're having translation happening simultaneously as we speak, so I would just ask you to remind yourselves of that when you are speaking.

So on behalf of the committee, what I would like you to do first is to introduce yourselves and the organizations you represent. Then we will start with Mr. Wainwright, who will start off our testimony. Before we do that, I would ask each of you to introduce yourself, please.

Thank you.

[Phil Wainwright, Chair, Winter Harbour Harbour Authority]

Good afternoon. My name is Phil Wainwright. I'm the chair or president of the Winter Harbour Harbour Authority, and I'm glad to be here.

[Lorraine Williams, Harbour Manager, Malcolm Island Lions Harbour Authority]

Good afternoon. My name is Lorraine Williams. I'm here from the Malcolm Island Lions Harbour Authority in Sointula.

[Jack Masterman, Chief Financial Officer, Keltic Seafoods]

My name is Jack Masterman. I'm representing Keltic Seafoods.

[Gwen Hansen, Secretary-Treasurer, Quatsino Residents' Organization]

I'm Gwen Hansen with the residents' organization in Quatsino.

[Mary-Ann Smith, Harbour Manager, Port Hardy Harbour Authority]

I'm Mary-Ann Smith, District of Port Hardy Harbour Authority.

[Pat McPhee, Harbour Manager, Port Hardy Harbour Authority]

I'm Pat McPhee, District of Port Hardy Harbour Authority.

[Gerry Furney, Mayor, Town of Port McNeill]

I'm Gerry Furney, mayor of Port McNeill.

[Albert Sweet, Administrator-Treasurer, Town of Port McNeill]

I'm Al Sweet, administrator for Port McNeill and for the harbour authority.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, everybody.

I believe we're going to have our first opening remarks from Mr. Wainwright. The floor is yours, sir.

[Phil Wainwright]

Thank you.

On behalf of the harbour authority, I will describe Winter Harbour. It is the most western port on Vancouver Island, approximately an hour and a half drive from Port Hardy.

Our harbour authority is made up of five individuals, volunteers from our community. We run a facility that's roughly 100 metres long. We have a wharf head and we have floats. It is all maintained through small craft harbours directorate. We run the business of the harbour by collecting fees and looking after the facility on behalf of small craft harbours directorate.

Our clientele at the facility for 12 months a year are commercial fisheries; approximately three months a year it is recreational fishers. We have transient boats that travel the coast from all over the coast. They can be travelling from the United States, to the United States, to Alaska from American ports, or there are Canadian vessels that come through. We have international fisheries, tuna fisheries that use our facilities periodically, and we have government vessels, be they small craft harbours.... The navy vessels come and stay in our harbour. I think that's it for who we are.

I would say the facility has been in place for at least 40 years. It's a wood pile-driven wharf with wood deck and wood floats. There are other facilities in Winter Harbour. They're all private facilities. We have a store, fuel, hydro, and we have volunteer water. We're a community of approximately 20 to 30 people in the winter and 200 to 300 people in the summer, when the recreation fishers and tourists are in our area.

That's it. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Mr. Wainwright.

Ms. Williams.

[Lorraine Williams]

I am currently the manager at the Malcolm Island harbour in Sointula. I have been working with the harbour authority since 1989, which is 19 years now, I guess.

There have been a lot of changes since then, the biggest one being with the implementation of the so-called Mifflin Plan in 1996. I think our repercussions are ongoing; we haven't seen the end result of that. However, today our docks are full. All winter our docks are full. Per capita I would say we have the largest fishing fleet on this coast out of Sointula. We have a large lucrative pleasure craft clientele now, who come every summer to the harbour for the two months.

As much as we've experienced a lot of the grief and uncertainty and turmoil from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, the small craft harbours program has worked really well with us. I think we have a good relationship.

Being on an island, our harbour is really critical for other services, including the ambulance, police, and fire. Hydro recently erected a building to be close to the harbour so they could service the community in power outages, which of course is usually in a big storm.

Our harbour is really the heart and soul of our community, and I cannot imagine our community without the public docks. Without our public docks, I think we really wouldn't have a community.

I think that's all I'm going to say for now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Hansen.

[Gwen Hansen]

Our community doesn't have any formal harbour committee, but I do have a written report.

Our community is located along the northeast shores of Quatsino Sound, 24 kilometres from the open Pacific Ocean. It was originally settled by Norwegians in 1895 as part of the B.C. government's effort to help colonize the remote west coast. We had a population peak of just fewer than 200 during the 1930s, but for the past three decades, Quatsino has had around 60 year-round residents.

We now have a fast-growing population of summer residents, and numerous fishing lodges are opening up. Our public facilities are very minimal. We have a one-room school with just five students, a historic Anglican church, a tiny full-service post office, and the centrally located government wharf.

While we haven't achieved the lofty goal of becoming the main harbour terminal between Canada and the Orient, which our first settlers had hoped, we are content to maintain our unique rural lifestyle. As we are without road access into our community, the water is our highway. The 12-kilometre stretch of water to the nearest wharf facility in Coal Harbour is our access route to the outside.

Our wharf was originally built in 1912 for off-loading freight and passengers from steamships. A float and gangway were added years later for private boat access and moorage. There are now 50 metres of well-lit moorage space along the main float, plus 26 metres along an adjoining float-plane dock. The heavy-duty hand crank winch is an essential part of the facility and is well used by residents and summer folks who need to move high volumes of goods and supplies in from town.

The wharf was almost lost in a fire five years ago. The community worked through the night and managed to control the blaze and kept it from spreading into nearby buildings and forest lands. The structure was downsized slightly and rebuilt within two years. The new smaller wharf shed offers shelter for those waiting for drop-off or to be picked up by boats and water taxis. Inside the shed, we've added community notice boards, a fire extinguisher, an emergency stretcher, and a two-wheeled wheelbarrow donated by Transport Canada for moving goods and small freight. There's no fresh water or electrical service available at the wharf, and volunteers maintain a small garbage receptacle.

Less than half the moorage space is taken up by small private boats, which use the facility year round. During the summer the floats are often full, and rafting, when necessary, is approved by Transport Canada.

We keep the loading zone clear for water taxis that drop off and pick up passengers constantly during the day. Currently, there are no commercial fishing boats tying up at the wharf.

While we have never had a resident wharfinger, the community does its best to ensure the wharf facility is safe and well maintained.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Ms. Hansen.

I'll reiterate somebody's comments from earlier. I realize, listening to you and others, that some of you have travelled a long way to be here today, and we certainly want to show our appreciation for that. You can't just hop in the car and drive up here. It takes a little bit of effort, and we certainly appreciate that.

Mr. Masterman.

[Jack Masterman]

I represent Keltic Seafoods. Keltic Seafoods is right alongside the new floats that were just put in by the District of Port Hardy.

We have real concerns that we're not going to be able to get our boats in to offload. The two docks are too close together. We're now faced with moving our docks over about seven metres to the north, which is going to mean we're going to have to pull pilings, move electrical and water services, etc. If the boats can't get in to offload, there's a tremendous potential loss of income for Keltic Seafoods, approaching a million dollars a year. I guess our question is if there is any assistance from Fisheries and Oceans Canada to move our floats over.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Mr. Masterman. I'm sure through our discussions we'll get into some of that debate.

Mr. McPhee.

[Pat McPhee]

I'll be brief. It's fairly redundant to go through what everybody has seen this morning.

I just want to state, though, that as far as the users of our docks, we have everything from commercial fishing vessels to commercial boats--that being tugs, charters, work boats, barges, and the like. We also have pleasure vessels in our docks year round. Of course that number increases starting about now and going to about mid- to late September. They can range anywhere from 10-foot dinghies to 120-foot dinghies. Also, the coast guard utilizes two of our docks. They have a lease contract with the District of Port Hardy for the third dock, which you didn't see this morning. That is the Seagate or the government dock. There are different names for it. The coast guard has a lease agreement there, a building, and they also have leased space.

We were at the fishermen's wharf this morning. The coast guard also has leased space down there, as does the RCMP and B.C. Parks. The navy was in on a number of occasions last year. They have been in there with their frigates tying up out there. It's a year-round facility. We don't have the winters you have back east with the heavy ice and everything.

I can't think of anything else offhand that would assist you right now, other than that you saw the same floats this morning. Some of you didn't ride in the truck going down. The ones who did, though, had a good walk around. You can see the facility that's being built, which is right next door to Keltic Seafood, Jack Masterman's facility there.

That's about all I'm going to say right now on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Mr. McPhee.

We'll go to Mayor Furney.

[Gerry Furney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

On behalf of our town, I wish to thank the committee for including Port McNeill on your itinerary to northern Vancouver Island. With your membership from all sections of our country, you have a great opportunity to observe how difficult the challenges of governing the different regions are. Being so far from Ottawa, it makes it difficult for us to get our concerns heard, regardless of the hard work of our members of Parliament over the years. That is why I greatly appreciate your hands-on visit.

You have seen our harbour and the crowded nature of each section. The commercial section is close to capacity at the moment, and the fishing season has not yet begun. The recreational and tourism section is well used and will be stretched to capacity over the next few months.

Our harbour is attractive to each type of boat owner, owing to the proximity of our town centre to the harbour, unlimited supplies of the best fresh well water on the coast, and first-class welcoming management by our harbour staff. That's what makes this so important. We see our harbour as an important economic driver as we service local and visiting craft, and work with the people who rely on marine access to their communities and Broughton Archipelago and the adjacent mainland of British Columbia.

With the challenges facing our forest industry, it is necessary for us to avail ourselves of every opportunity to diversify our economy, work with the fishing and aquaculture industries, and position our community to benefit from oil and gas exploration, which I hope will see the development of that industry in our area in the near future.

I have reviewed your list of possible questions, which are listed in your travel schedule, and note the question on relationships with DFO. We have an excellent relationship with the small craft harbours branch, as we realize the necessity of a mutual, practical, cooperative approach to management. Our town council was instrumental in the founding of the harbour authority association some years ago, and has been an active participant ever since. We have found there is a sincere desire to work with us in our ongoing day-to-day operations and in developing our long-term plans. We have never felt the need for a referee or an ombudsman to help in our negotiations with small craft harbours directorate.

Our experience with other levels of DFO has not been as positive and may only be cured by some changes in their approach to working with local government. We have two current examples. In one, we have been refused permission to clear the weeds and undergrowth from a ditch on our main street, which is a danger to traffic and pedestrians.

In the second example, the company that operates the only fuel dock on our waterfront has been refused permission to dredge their dock water lot so they can lessen the distance to their service area. They have had to build and maintain an unnecessarily long floating walkway and piping system to get to deep water. The town supports the project wholeheartedly, but the request for dredging has been turned down. Yet permission has been granted in nearby Campbell River to dredge and construct a huge shopping centre off the waterfront there.

When the locally elected government is supportive of any project like this, I believe there is a need for other levels of government to respect the input of the local government, in this case the town. And the bureaucrat who is representing the higher level of government should have to listen and justify before an ombudsman the decisions that are limiting such a project.

I believe a second look should be taken and that an ombudsman should be available in situations like this. It would not need to be invoked very often, so it could be a respected local or regional citizen with common sense, someone like the mayor of Port Hardy as an example, or any one of the managers you see around the table.

I present this respectfully and with appreciation for your presence. Thank you very much. And I'm trusting that there was Irish interpretation for my remarks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Fabian Manning]

Thank you, Mayor Furney, and I understood you quite clearly.

Before we move any further, I would like to recognize the presence in our audience of Robin Richardson, from small craft harbours directorate, DFO, who has been travelling with us over the past couple of days and I'm sure is familiar to many of you here at the table. I thank Robin for being here again today.

We'll begin our questions with Mr. MacAulay, I believe.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Mayor, what you're telling the committee is that DFO in general increases your costs or creates great difficulty when you try to do something around the wharf areas. That's what you want to have on record here?