Evidence of meeting #38 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fishermen.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you both very much.
Sir, on the east and west coasts we hear a lot of concerns about dredging, as there is a lot of silt and that. Now, I ask this question out of ignorance, but where is the silt coming from? Is it silt coming from the rivers that builds up in your harbours and causes you to have to dredge, or what?
Manager, Goodman's Landing
I'm just going to talk about Lake Winnipeg. The biggest problem now is that there are only two or three big boats. That's why you haven't been hearing a whole bunch, because there used to be 30 to 40 boats travelling on the lake, but now we're down to two or three.
The biggest problem with dredging is in the rivers. For instance, the Jackhead River was completely dry. We have 35 fishermen, because we don't have enough room at Goodman's Landing. They have to take their boats to the river, and when the wind is blowing from the north at 45 miles an hour, they have to jump out of their boats and pull their boats across the sandbar to get them into the river. Then they ask if they can dig out the river. Well, you know what happens there: you can't touch it because of the fish, and this and that. If the river is blocked, the fish can't get up there anyway—and it's after spawning season anyway.
On Lake Winnipeg right now, it's mostly about the rivers and access to the harbours within 600 to 2,000 yards off these facilities, I would say, which have to be cleaned out. Without the big dredging system—I don't want to rule out anything—there are ideas that maybe there's a smaller system that could be helping to clean these out. Sometimes backhoes and drag lines are just not enough; you need a smaller barge-type vessel. It doesn't have to be operated by the government; it could be operated by anybody.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
You also indicated that there was some sort of northern provincial funding that helped build a particular wharf. One of the concerns, of course, that I would assume any government would have is that if they're going to spend hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars building a wharf facility, they want to ensure that it has long-term future viability. Obviously that would depend on fish stocks. Without fish, you don't have fishermen, thus the wharf would become derelict in that regard. Obviously, as we've heard today, the fish stocks, especially for pickerel, are doing quite well in Lake Winnipeg. For the foreseeable future, with the sorts of restrictions in place, it looks like it can continue to do well, as long as the lake remains healthy and everything else.
So young people, especially on reserves like Jackhead, looking at this for opportunity, need to see some sort of infrastructure that allows them to continue to carry on what their uncle or father or mother did in that regard.
In your personal view, is there a long-term, viable future for the fishery in your community and in Mr. Traverse's as well? If indeed that's the case, is there any joint possibility of provincial buy-in or cross-jurisdictional buy-in with federal departments as well? Right now, DFO small craft harbours has a big enough job just looking after the ones they're responsible for. Adding new ones is not necessarily going to be a hard sell, but it will be a request. We need to make that request on the basis that it's a long-term, economical, viable solution for these particular communities.
Manager, Goodman's Landing
Well, for Goodman's Landing, yes. I deal with Kinonjeoshtegon First Nation. They also deal with Fisher River First Nation. The fishermen there are going to be there for 20 to 30 more years. That's all I can answer. At Kinonjeoshtegon they've set up an initiative for the younger people to start getting into it. But every time they go out with their dad and they have to pull their yawl into the station, or they go park in the station and their boat flips over, it's kind of discouraging. You know, their boat flips over, and they have to do this, and they say, “Then why do we work, because we just had to spend $1,000 fixing our boat?” The situation is kind of depressing right off the bat.
As far as the province and the feds getting together and the first nations getting together, anything is possible. I mean, we've asked for $5,000 from the provincial government to help us out and stuff like that, and we haven't received anything. They say to go to the small craft harbours program. We're not saying it has to be owned by the small craft harbours branch. We'd prefer it, because that's the organization that decommissioned some of the stations, which led to more fishermen at our station. So we feel that under that organization it will be protected. And it will give the younger people something to look forward to because they'll be seeing some progress in that industry.
Conservative
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I have just a couple of quick questions for both of you. How many people live in either of these reserves? Am I right in saying that they're different reserves? What's the population of Jackhead?
Spokesman, Jackhead Fisheries
What I said earlier was that we have about 100 houses. The population is about 300.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB
I represent some reserves in my riding back in Alberta. There's a tremendous growth rate. Most of the people are young. Would it be fair to say that there are quite a few young people on the Jackhead Reserve? Is it growing?
Spokesman, Jackhead Fisheries
Yes, we have lots of young people. We don't have anything going for them right now, but I know that this fishery is the backbone we have. That's all we have to defend ourselves, in many ways. You add up the cost of gasoline, hydro, and everything at the end of the day, and you don't have anything to take home.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB
There are no band-owned corporations, or anything like that?
Spokesman, Jackhead Fisheries
As I said, we're a very small community, and our funding is not that high. It's not that great either. We have local jobs that are available for people who have held onto them ever since the funding started in our community. Some of them are hereditary jobs. We don't have any long-term plans other than what my friend Kevin here was talking about.
Goodman's Landing...yes, we produce a lot of fish there, but our community doesn't benefit a red penny from Goodman's Landing. That's the truth about it today.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB
There's subsistence fishing, there are treaty rights, but we're not talking about that kind of fishing. We're talking about commercial fishing. Now, a first nations person in Manitoba, if they were going to engage in commercial fishing, would have to go through the same commercial fishing process that any other commercial fisherman in Manitoba would have to go through. Is that right?
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB
So how many commercial fishermen are there who are members of the Jackhead Band?
Spokesman, Jackhead Fisheries
There are about 28, but we have these small quotas that we buy from each other, A lot of them are 10,000-pound quotas. A lot of us hold three or four for one young person and one family. But our young people can't get into the fishing industry because of the situation. Everything has gone up. On the price to buy a quota today, I think right now they're selling them for $23,000 in my community, and there's no financial.... The banks won't look at a young person--no credibility, nothing. So it's sad.
I was brought up depending on this lake. I was not born in a hospital. I was born right on the shores of this lake that you see out there. I was brought up that way, so I'm very thankful for that today. I try to show that to my grandchildren today so they can feel good about themselves and understand who they are.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB
Banks have a hard time lending money to people who don't have any equity. They don't own their own home; they don't have any physical assets.There are hard messages out there and there are some positive things that can happen. If building a wharf is going to do it, if it's going to allow some economic development.... I'd just be curious about what kinds of assurances...because there have been lots of grand plans, and some of these things do get funding and some of these things don't turn out to be quite as grand as what was originally envisioned.
I'd like to give Kevin an opportunity to respond.
Manager, Goodman's Landing
I'm going to clarify that I'm acting for Goodman's Landing fisheries, which is owned by Kinonjeoshtegon First Nation, and that is the Jackhead Reserve, as Henry is talking about. Henry is with Jackhead Fisheries. He has another harbour on reserve. Goodman's Landing is off reserve, on crown land.
You were asking him a question about the people. There are actually 29 fishermen from Jackhead and 14 helpers, and the balance are from the Fisher River First Nation.
Conservative
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB
So rather than having the wharf on band land, then, I guess the opportunity exists to have the wharf over at Goodman's Landing.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB
That is adjacent to, but not on, band land—and the fishermen from Jackhead use Goodman's Landing right now.
Manager, Goodman's Landing
No, they can't because there's no room there. Right now they bring their boats into the river and just park in the river, and that's because they can't park at Goodman's Landing. They can't get in.
Conservative
Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB
Is there a desire from the younger people in the community to get involved?
Spokesman, Jackhead Fisheries
Historically, we have to keep the government of the day accountable for their actions and how they address first nations issues, from where I come from. One of the gentlemen here had asked a question, but since he's from another region, I can't speak for anybody else other than my own community, or for where I come from.
We just finished negotiations last week with the provincial government, trying to get recognition for what we need in our home communities. It's been going on for too many years now. Other people have benefited from our misery.
For my part, I don't have a job. All I realize is fishing. I'm comfortable with that; I'm not a fussy person, but I'd like to express myself that way this morning. I feel good. I have a breath of life; I've been given a breath of life this morning. I feel good about that, as it's the kind of person I am. I want to say that.
