Fisheries Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2007

[The Acting Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Thank you, Mr. Byrne, for bringing that up.

Now we will go back to our order of business of two motions. The first motion, of course, was from Monsieur Lévesque. I'll read it to the committee:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Committee undertake a study on the condition of the eel grass (zostera marina) beds in James Bay and that representatives of the Cree Nation of Chisasibi, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and other witnesses as appropriate be invited to appear.

Mr. Lévesque, would you like to explain your motion, please?

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I've been approached by a number of nations and communities living along the north shores of James Bay, Ungava Bay and Hudson Bay for whom goose hunting is part of their culture. In English, they call it the goose break. It's an activity specific to the cultures of the First Nations and it's their source of food for the fall and spring.

Currently, as a result of the disappearance of this grass and this species of moss that cover the littoral, the geese are disappearing as well, and the communities are very concerned about this.

They would therefore like us to conduct a scientific study on the causes of the disappearance of this grass. Experts have studied the phenomenon and would like to be heard by the committee. They would also like to hear the department's experts, if possible.

[The Acting Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Thank you, Mr. Lévesque.

Mr. Kamp.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm not opposed to the notion of the committee studying something like this, but it seems to me we're in the middle of a study right at the moment, and this other motion proposes the committee getting even more work. We've talked, I think both in the steering committee and in the committee at large, of other possible studies, and so I'm not sure I would be supportive of saying yes to this without knowing whether it means we would do it right away or sometime in the future, or whether it would be one of a long list of things we would want to consider for our next study following the small craft harbours.

It's not clear to me what the intent of this is, so at this point, with the information I have, I wouldn't be supportive of it.

[The Acting Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Monsieur Lévesque, may I ask when, if this were passed, you would anticipate our studying something of this nature?

I'll just give you a brief calendar. Next week we're here, and then I assume we're rising, and we probably won't come back until the last week of January.Then we have February and two meetings then, and a couple more, and then there may or may not be a budget in February or early March, so our time is extremely limited then. And we don't know what the budget will propose and, of course, what Parliament will say about that budget.

Did you anticipate that this is something you want done fairly soon, or can it wait until the spring, or something of that nature?

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

We discussed this idea in subcommittee, according to what my colleague Raynald Blais told me. That was planned in early February, if possible, but I'm making my request today so that it is on the agenda and we can debate it.

It would be very important for the First Nations if we could do this as soon as possible, as soon as the ice is gone, if we decided to send teams to study the problem. The survival of the First Nations people and their culture are partly at stake.

We don't necessarily need to do it before the holidays. We can do it in early February. Subsequent action will be the responsibility of the subcommittee, as soon as we are heard on the matter of whether we can proceed or not. If we can proceed, we'll set a date in early February and that will be fine.

[The Acting Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

How many meetings do you anticipate this would take, if it passes?

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Perhaps we could do everything in a single meeting: call the Cree experts and those of the department, and make a decision on that basis.

[The Acting Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Mr. Kamp, do you have any concerns?

Mr. Williams.

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

As you know, I'm not a regular at this committee, but it seems to me that this issue of the eel grass up in James Bay is not a political event; it's a scientific problem that seems to be caused up there, and I don't think, therefore, the resolution to the problem is going to be found around this committee table.

It would seem to me therefore much more appropriate that the committee call for a scientific study to be brought to this committee, once they have the answers and some recommendations and know exactly what's going on. I don't think bringing some people from James Bay down here to discuss a problem that's up there is going to shed an awful lot of light on it. It's not that I wouldn't want to find out what's going on, but I don't think this is the way to do it.

[The Acting Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Would I be fair in saying that you would recommend a letter from the committee to the department asking them about this specific issue, what they know about it ,and what they can or cannot do about it?

[John Williams, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Absolutely, and once some scientist has done a study on it and understands what's going on, then the committee can take a look at the scientific reports and call in the people who live around there to find out what's going on. That way you're going to get some intelligence, rather than just trying to debate it around here. None of us, I think, has the expertise and the knowledge; we've never even been there to see the problem. It would seem to me much more appropriate that we ask the department to get a technical, scientific report and bring it to committee. Then you can call in the witnesses.

[The Acting Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Thank you, Mr. Williams.

Monsieur Lévesque.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

The representatives of the First Nations are appealing to the committee today because they have already contacted the department and were not satisfied with the answer given or with the department's intention to proceed in this matter.

That is why, as a result of the responses they have obtained, they are now asking to be heard, and they are open to the idea of the departmental experts being heard as well.

[The Acting Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Thank you.

One moment, Mr. Lévesque.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

I believe I'll have to start over.

[The Acting Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Mr. Lévesque, would you like to say that again, please. I apologize.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

I said that the First Nations were seeking agreements from the committee because they had already contacted the department and the answer they received was unsatisfactory.

It currently appears that the department does not acknowledge the problem. That's why they're asking to be heard together with their experts. They are also prepared to hear the department's experts.

[The Acting Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Okay, Mr. Lévesque.

Does anyone from the Liberal Party wish to add anything to this?

Mr. Simms.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL]

In my own opinion, I like the idea of the study, if it's a one-day or two-day thing. It is something worth looking into. I don't see any major concerns, unless my colleagues want to speak otherwise.

[The Acting Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Mr. Byrne.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Again, I'll just register my broad caution that I've raised before, which is that when we enter into one-day studies, rarely do we have an opportunity to hear all the witnesses, and it often expands into a four-session study. That is natural. If you hear testimony from one particular group of witnesses with a specific point of view, those of a contrary point of view then want to be heard and expect to be heard.

If we're confident that this is a one-day testimony event, then by all means, but if we believe there is a strong possibility that there could be an equal and opposite reaction from other stakeholders wanting to be heard in this particular court, then we have to merit that from the point of view of the time available to us.

[The Acting Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Mr. Lévesque, if you wish, I can consult with the regular chair of the committee along with the vice-chairs and the subcommittee of fisheries and oceans, which I'm a member of as well. We could bring it to their attention and discuss it there, if you wish, and we can bring whatever consensus comes out of that back here and indicate that to the committee. I'm just concerned about the time and the scheduling complexities of it.

I've been around long enough to know that if you have a one-day committee hearing on an issue, generally you end up writing a letter to the department saying, “Can you do the following?” or “Are you aware of the following?”, which is what Mr. Williams had indicated. Maybe we could head it off at the pass by doing the letter in advance.

If you wish, sir, I could take it to the subcommittee, or if you prefer, it is your motion and you can have a vote on it right now if you wish. I put it in your hands.

My own advice, sir, would be for Mr. Blais, Mr. Matthews, me, Mr. Anders, and Mr. Kamp to sit around the subcommittee to discuss this with you, if you would like to attend, and to be able to see how we can move this forward, if you so desire.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Ultimately, if we agree to the motion today, you could submit it to the subcommittee for it to set a representative date of the time needed to present the matter, if necessary.

First, we would have to acknowledge the necessity of hearing these people. Then we would submit that to the subcommittee for it to set the hearing date.

What do you think about that?

[The Acting Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Mr. Lévesque, would you like a vote on this motion now, then?