Fisheries Committee on April 1st, 2009

[Ashton Spinney]

It's area 40, Browns Bank.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Is it Browns Bank?

[Ashton Spinney]

Yes.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

I thought I was asking a relevant question to the relevant fishermen. Still, if you'd like to comment on it, I'd like to hear what you have to say. It's the only area we have in the entire Atlantic that's a natural refuge. Any thoughts on it?

[Ashton Spinney]

I think we are reaping the benefits of it today. We are reaping the benefits. We're at a high, and a lot of that has to do not only with what we have done as fishermen, but also with the area that's been closed. It's beneficial to us and to area 41 as well.

There's another issue. I sit at a lot of tables. We have one called the regional lobster round table that includes Newfoundland, Quebec, New Brunswick, P.E.I., and Nova Scotia. It is chaired by a group known as the Canadian Centre for Fisheries Innovation. It is very disturbing to me—I got an e-mail about it on Friday—that the funding is being removed from that centre. It has done a tremendous amount of work for us, and is continuing to do a lot of work for our lobster industry.

We are embarking on a huge promotion of lobster in the world. In fact, when I get home today, I have to send in some nominations for a steering committee. There's a tremendous amount of work being done there by Carey Bonnell and those people. I strongly encourage you to speak to ACOA on our behalf, because the benefits are just...we can't measure them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Spinney.

Gentlemen, on behalf of the committee, thank you for taking time out from your busy schedules to come and meet with us and for the advice and recommendations that you brought forward. We really appreciate it.

We'll take a short break until we set up for the next presenters.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

All right. We're ready to begin.

Today we have the pleasure of having the Eastern Shore Fishermen's Protection Association with us. Norma Richardson and Nellie Baker Stevens are with us this morning.

I'd like to thank you for joining us today.

Just to let you know--and I know you've been here throughout the morning--there will be some beeping noises that you'll hear throughout the proceedings. There are some time constraints that we try to adhere to, sometimes successfully but most times not. But we do try to adhere to the timeframes. So don't be alarmed if you hear a beeping noise.

We generally provide the presenters with 10 minutes to make their points, and then we proceed to questioning.

So at this point in time, Mrs. Richardson, I'll let you take the floor.

Thank you.

[Norma Richardson, President, Eastern Shore Fishermen's Protection Association]

Thank you very much.

Good day, gentlemen, ladies.

My name is Norma Richardson, and with me is Nellie Baker Stevens. We represent the Eastern Shore Fishermen's Protection Association. We are located along the eastern shore of Nova Scotia. Our membership consists of 230. We go from Canso in Guysborough County to Halifax harbour. This is considered region 3. We are accredited under the provincial legislation with the Fisheries Organizations Support Act. We also have local fish plants and buyers as associate members. We cover two LFAs, 32 and 31B.

I would like to thank the committee for hearing us today. Although we would have liked more time to prepare, hopefully we'll cover most of the points.

We made presentations to the FRCC during their consultations on lobster, and I also attended the sessions for the final consultations. I felt that the report that was prepared did not totally reflect all the points from those sessions, specifically in terms of the conservation measures taking place throughout the different regions.

Any initiative that is entered into has to have stakeholder support. A critical component of lobster conservation is the adoption by local stakeholder groups of an active stewardship role, and this was quoted by Gerry Ennis, from Newfoundland.

In our region in the past, LFAs 32 and 31B did not agree with DFO's conservation measures. The landscape of each harbour varies. An increase in carapace measure will give different results according to the harbour that has a composition of larger-sized measures compared with harbours with a smaller size.

Fishermen are adamant that the conservation measures be equal throughout the LFAs. The benefits and costs should be the same. When the LFAs and representatives worked independently, there was never a consensus. With the LFAs' reps meeting once a year and not having the ability to hear what was happening elsewhere, it was hard to make an informed decision on behalf of other fishermen.

The association was asked by the lobster representatives in the area to bring the parties together to work toward a plan that would be satisfactory to everyone, or at least to the majority. This is when the idea of v-notching was hatched. This was the only conservation measure that each fisherman would have to give the same amount of effort toward.

In 2000, LFAs 32 and 31B, more than 200 lobster fishermen, collected 220 pounds of large unburied female lobsters, more than 110 millimetres, from their catch. These lobsters were then v-notched and released back to the ocean. All v-notch releases were verified by an independent body, the Fishermen and Scientists Research Society.

This project is funded 100% by the fishermen. Over the past nine years, these fishermen have released more than 250,000 pounds of large unburied female lobsters with an approximate value of $1.5 million. They have also tagged more than 30,000 large unburied female lobsters. And today they still see some of those tagged lobsters that they released in 2000.

Information has been gathered over the years on lobster movement, the number of buried females with v-notches, and the number without v-notches. More than 14,000 tagged v-notched lobsters have been recaptured and released, in most cases. So we know they have survived the v-notch and the tagging process.

These fishermen are open to providing science with other information that they may require. It is also very important to note that we have 100% compliance by the fishermen in this project.

Our definition of a v-notch is any mutilation on a particular flipper on the tail of the lobster--the third flipper over, or whatever. And the lobster fishery one-size conservation method does not fit all areas. In LFA 31A, they have been doing a different conservation method. Ginny is not going to be here, but I'm sure she'll send in her report.

We fish a maximum of 63 days and have a trap limit of 250. This is a spring fishery. We fish from April 19 to June 20. Our fishery is well-known by the buyers for providing quality lobsters. However, we normally don't see this reflected in the price. In fact, we get a lower price than they do here in Southwest Nova.

This year, as you know, does not look good. Our fishermen cannot survive on a $3-a-pound lobster. We have to compare the eastern shore, with landings in some areas as low as 7,000 pounds, with 50,000 pounds or more in this area.

Our fishermen have been under a groundfish moratorium since 1992, and lobster, at this point, is their main source of income.

We have been successful in becoming permanent in the snow crab fishery. This is a help, but because we have approximately 20 fishermen sharing one licence, the income is very small compared to what they would have if each of them had a licence.

The price of bait and fuel has increased, while the price for our lobster has declined. Fishermen have to worry about boat insurance and maintenance. We are also heavily downloaded with fees from DFO and cannot handle anymore.

We do not expect to see our groundfish increase due to the explosion of the seal population. The gentleman is not here, but his hat is quite interesting.

When there are no groundfish, we are hearing that the seals may turn to lobster as their source of food, and this would be devastating to the industry.

Dockside monitoring is not something our fishermen embrace, as they see it as not working. Most of the lobster fishermen land at their own wharves, and there are several hundred of these along our coast. It would make it nearly impossible to send a monitor everywhere. It would also be hard on the fishermen to make them land at designated wharves because of the distances along our coast and the amount of time they would have to get there. This would lead back to adding more expense and more time to their already exhausting day.

We deal with local buyers and try to keep the money within our communities. We know we are in tough economic times and will work on behalf of our fishermen to get the best price and allow for competition among the buyers. These fishermen are all independent businessmen and should be receiving a fair price for the top-quality product they have.

We do not support an ITQ or IQ system in this area. We do not support quotas at all. They do not think this will help the markets or the fishery. It would just put more control in a few hands. Yes, it may take some people out of the fishery, but that quota will just go to someone else, so it will do nothing for the resource.

We only ask to be allowed to make a living, and although today lobster is our main resource, we are all multi-species licence holders and pursue other fisheries that are available, such as our small groundfish quota, snow crabs, herring, and so on.

We have been following closely the MSC process on sustainability. Our fishermen have always tried to look after the resource and the habitat so that there would be something there for their children and grandchildren. We are now thrown into an MSC or other traceability and sustainable theme. We have no problem working towards this; we have a problem with the astronomical cost to the industry for certification. It seems that once we pay around $500,000 for a certification that says we are sustainable, in five years' time we will have to start the process all over again. This will, in my mind, take away from fishermen being sustainable, as there will be no one left to worry about.

This has been promoted as a way to increase our market share. We feel that this alone is not enough. We need more aggressive marketing strategies as well as the industry working together, at least on this initiative, to help us move forward. In reality, the processors and buyers need the fishermen to supply the product, and we need these people to buy our product. This is an important hurdle we have to get over.

According to GPI Atlantic, to be sustainable we need indicators to assess the effectiveness of the management rules under which the fishery is governed. We also need organizations to implement these rules for managing the fishery, be it government or non-governmental organizations, such as fishermen's associations. In general, they say that indicators need to examine several things: the manageability and enforceability of the regulations; whether there is a match between the level of resources society is going to allocate to management and what is needed to accomplish that management effectively; and the actual resources available to management. Notwithstanding this, there is a lack of resources available to industry to be effective in the necessary areas.

We are now hearing about the Canadian Centre for Fisheries Innovation closing. This has been a very useful organization that has provided the industry with great projects and much needed leadership, not only in Newfoundland but in all of Atlantic Canada and Quebec. At this crucial time in the industry, we do not want these types of groups to shut down. That is poor timing on the funder's part.

My presentation is very short. Thank you for the opportunity to express our views on the lobster industry.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Byrne, I believe you're going to share your time with Mr. Calkins--

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Yes, I will.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

--or vice versa, whichever.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Well, we're going to try, anyway.

Thank you very much to the witnesses for appearing before us and providing your knowledge and your perspective on some key fishing industry issues.

The whole process of certification seems to have you quite rattled, and I can understand that. Just describe for the committee what you understand the process to be. I'm really intrigued. You've laid down a specific marker of $500,000 to actually comply. Who is charging that $500,000? Who is responsible for that, and what organizations on the ground are actually seeking certification?

[Norma Richardson]

The consultants will do the certifying, and the certifiers will be charging that cost. There is a small percentage that goes to the MSC, as it is a non-profit organization; I understand it is funded by foundations. But the bulk of the money would go to the certifiers on the ground, like Tavel. Under MSC rules, they're only allowed to certify for up to five years, and then it has to go through the whole process again. So that's where we are.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

I want to tie that into the Canadian Centre for Fisheries Innovation. There are a number of private sector consultant services that are basically advertising their services because of new requirements or new opportunities in certification. Whichever way you want to put it, they are now providing that.

The CCFI is involved in the creation of the Atlantic lobster round table, which I think you were a participant in.

[Norma Richardson]

Yes.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

As I understand it, your concern is that CCFI's funding through the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency has now been revoked or cancelled. Provincial governments, including the Province of Nova Scotia, are funding the CCFI, but they don't have that federal funding so their doors are actually going to close.

[Norma Richardson]

Yes.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

If I understand correctly, you're saying that at this most crucial time the CCFI mandate is being curtailed when it is needed most.

Based on your own experience with CCFI, could the CCFI actually play a role and have a guiding hand in assisting organizations in receiving certification? This role would not be to replace the consultants per se, but to minimize the cost of the consultant. The consultants don't have to go into each and every jurisdiction or location and reinvent the wheel. Is that a possibility? Is that another role the CCFI could potentially play?

Maybe, Nellie, you might have some points on that.

[Nellie Baker Stevens, Coordinator, Eastern Shore Fishermen's Protection Association]

I don't know their mandate or what they have to live with, but I think that's a great idea. It's an excellent idea. We should do anything to reduce the costs.

When we first had Tavel down to do a presentation, it was something like $500 or $600 an hour for their work. It was ridiculous. And they needed two or three of them at a time. I worked it out over a five-year term to be $500,000. That's ridiculous. You go back to the fishermen and tell them to be prepared to go into their pockets and pay for that.

So if any of you have ideas like that, they'd actually be great. They're trusted, I believe, by not just the fishermen....

We had buyers and processors around the table, and we were actually talking with each other in expressing concern about the industry as a whole. I thought that was a huge step. I don't know how it's done in other provinces, but this was huge. We had all the provincial ministers there as well. We even had the Minister of Fisheries at one of our meetings. It was great to see everybody concerned about this.

This is a lobster crisis, in our mind. We've come to a point that what is happening now cannot be maintained. We have to make a movement. This is what I got out of that meeting on Monday. As industry, we're prepared to move forward. But after the meeting, he told us, by the way, you no longer have funding.

So it would be very interesting if they could add that on. I know we would definitely take advantage of that.

Ashton didn't mention it here, but all the LFAs are trying to get together and work as one in getting certified. My understanding is that in order to get federal money, or even provincial money, if that large group works together it seems to be easier to do that. As an industry, I don't know if you realize how hard that is, to get all the LFAs to sit down in a room and agree that we're going to spend a whack of money on something we're not even sure we believe in.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Nellie, could I interject?

The LFAs had not come together in the past, as I understand it, until the Atlantic lobster round table came aboard. That Atlantic lobster round table--and you can clarify this for me, if you would--was actually the creation of the Canadian Centre for Fisheries Innovation.

[Nellie Baker Stevens]

Yes, it was.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

What may be interesting to committee members--and I think it says a lot about the CCFI--is that it is actually based in St. John's, Newfoundland, at the marine institute.

But you heartily endorse them.

[Nellie Baker Stevens]

Yes, absolutely.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

You feel complete trust, respect, and confidence in their ability to do what's in the best interests--

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Is that because they're from Newfoundland?