Mr. MacAulay.
Evidence of meeting #17 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lobster.
Evidence of meeting #17 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lobster.
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Welcome to the witnesses. Thank you for your time. This is excellent reading, I must say.
Mr. Thompson, I'd like your opinion. You were talking about the catch having improved over the years and the regulations having been changed. Do you feel that the regulation change in the fishery has much to do with the increase in the catches, and do you feel that the regulations are put in in a proper way, with consultation with the fisheries groups? What I'm asking is whether you think it's from the bottom up or from the top down.
11:30 a.m.
As an Individual
Certain regulation changes have no doubt helped increase the catch. The increase in capture size no doubt has been a help. I believe that over the last few years there has been a considerable improvement in enforcement of regulations governing the fisheries.
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
Thank you very much.
Mr. Mitchell, I was following what you had to say. Obviously you are well informed on what is taking place. What seems to happen is that a lot of fish comes in all of a sudden, and there has to be a way for at least orderly marketing to make sure you get the best dollar for your fish.
What do you think? We hear so much about storage and pounds and we hear that they are not good quality. Then we hear from other groups that they are good quality and they're stored properly. I'd like your opinion on what should take place. Just what should happen? We know there are pounds all over the place.
You mentioned the first lot, when you went to sell lobsters for $4 or around that price. Before you managed to sell the last of them, I believe you got up to $6. That's pretty important to the bottom line, as far as I would be concerned.
11:30 a.m.
As an Individual
Yes. I think we need lobster storage. Deer Island was the capital of lobster storage for years in open tidal pounds. It was pioneered there. We had the best tide range, we had no fresh water there, and six to eight million pounds and as high as ten million pounds were stored over the summer months on Deer Island.
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
11:30 a.m.
As an Individual
Yes, they were stored properly in tidal pounds. I don't know what happened. Some of the buyers feel, some with pounds, that the salmon aquaculture industry came and located close to the pounds, and where those came they started taking huge losses, as high as 20%, on their lobsters. There is a feeling—no one can prove it.... In one pound they did: they got avermectin, illegal chemicals used in salmon cages, into the lobsters and killed every lobster in the lobster pound in Back Bay in New Brunswick. It was in court. It was never settled. For three or four years, the law court.... Rodney Weston may remember this; I don't know.
11:30 a.m.
As an Individual
Illegal chemicals were being used, and they killed all the lobsters in the pound. They all died.
The lobster pounds sometimes took more weight out of the pounds than they put in, because they fed them on a daily or weekly basis. Now, in our area, no one has pounds for lobster. The pounds have all fallen down, and they've gone to tank houses. The fellow I sell to has a tank house. Definitely his lobster is not as good a quality as pound lobster; however, he has about a 2% or 3% shrinkage, versus as high as 20% the last few years. He just couldn't afford to keep them in pounds anymore.
But we got out of pounds. Those lobsters, as I said earlier, migrate through. There is a migration of those lobsters through our area at the end of May into June, and we need that...and maybe into July. We don't know. We aren't allowed to fish in July.
I think we need to spread those seasons out more so that we have more fresh-caught stuff, so that there is no huge spike in the processing industry, and everybody in May and June can spread some of the cash into July, as long as we can land hard-shell, good-quality lobsters, in July. I don't know whether we can do that or not. I think we can in the first two weeks in July, but not much longer than that.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
Of course, you then feel that we need some kind of method to make sure there's an orderly marketing process.
11:35 a.m.
As an Individual
Yes, we do. I think we need some research into tank houses to find a way of somehow stopping the protein loss in the tank houses. Surely there's some research that DFO or someone can do on that. Maybe there's some way we can feed them in the water. They're pumping water to them all the time, but the lobsters are in a comatose state, almost. I'm wondering whether there's a way of somehow feeding them or finding a way to work this through that would help.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
Your fishery is strong, your catches are up, but this area is not in what....
What is your feeling about the government putting a retirement program in place in difficult areas in order to take the strain off the resource?
11:35 a.m.
As an Individual
I don't agree with that, myself. I think it will work itself through. People will stop fishing if they have to. I live on an island with a captive population of 800 people who work. Every time we lose a fishing licence on Deer Island, we have lost three of the natives. That's nine jobs gone from Deer Island. When you see that, it hurts.
I like to see people fishing. I love to fish. I grew up from the time I was eight years old to be a lobster and sardine fisherman.
11:35 a.m.
As an Individual
I've loved it every day of my life. My son fishes with me; that's another plus for me. I hope my grandson can fish with me someday too. I'm looking to stay in it in the long term, I can tell you that.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
You also mentioned, when you were giving your presentation, the situation between the fisherman and the buyer or the processor, and I'd like you to comment on it. You feel that there's not enough contact, I would take it, or not enough information sharing.
11:35 a.m.
As an Individual
We don't understand what goes on. We hear a lot of rumours. The fellow I sell to seems to give out more information than most people; don't ask me why. I think he has a loyal group of people; he seems to be able to.... But I don't trust him completely, either.
11:35 a.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
Mr. Chairman, I have just a couple of questions.
Thanks for coming in.
We've had a little discussion about trying to protect the jumbos that you mentioned. Give us some idea of how much of your catch consists of those.
And do you want to explain a little bit more about conservation? It's interesting to hear your comments about dropping the number of traps but catching the same amount of product, and that being of some benefit.
If you would, please explain a little more on those two subjects.
11:35 a.m.
As an Individual
I'll answer the second question first. This was not in our district; it was in Maine. Maine is dropping from 2,500 down to 600 to 800 traps, according to the different places, and the catch has not fallen. New Zealand and Australia have done the same thing for their rock lobster; their catch has not fallen. But I think they have spread the catch out over a longer time, which is better.
I've seen 25 lobsters in a trap, but not very often. Eight or ten or fifteen lobsters is a lot to see in a trap, and sometimes there are none; I can tell you that as well. A lot of empty ones come up in a season, too. I think we could get our trap limit and increase the whole thing. There would also be fewer traps lost and less ghost fishing. All those things would be a help to conservation.
Concerning the jumbos, there are more jumbos now. My father told me that when he started fishing in the 1940s, there were a lot of jumbos. They seemed to be fished out, but now we seem to be getting many more jumbos. I have records here....
I don't give my records out—they're personal—but I brought them with me. Fishermen are very secretive about what they have done, I can tell you. I'm up to 15% to 20% jumbos in our area. I know that because my buyer separates his catch out, so I sell the jumbos at a different price. He's the only buyer who does that in southern New Brunswick. Up to roughly 20% or 25% jumbos, you gain on the two-price system; above that, you're better off to sell in a one-price system. He gets people who are catching a better quality—I caught a better quality and better size mix—more than other buyers do. He encourages this himself.
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
How would you tie the returning of the jumbos into V-notching? We've had a discussion over the last few days about V-notching. It's a practice used in the States, but not as commonly used here.
11:40 a.m.
As an Individual
V-notching is voluntary. The fisheries department could never prove whether you're V-notching. If you return that lobster to the water, you know she is going to spawn. That mandatorily shows it's going to work. Even in Maine, V-notching is not mandatory, so how do you really know how many are being V-notched? I V-notch some; most people at home just don't V-notch.
Our fishery on Deer Island has a higher percentage of jumbo lobster than most places in our district; therefore, people at home want to catch those jumbos, and they get bigger. My brother-in-law, the brother of Maureen, who is sitting right here, catches a much higher percentage of jumbo lobsters than I do. I don't know why, but he does. People like him don't want to lose the jumbo fishery; I'll say that. To make it a fishery for the long term, if we're catching so many at a good carapace size, I think we need all that bigger stock to spawn,.