Evidence of meeting #17 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 40th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lobster.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
I'd like to know where you want to be. If you want to take the authority away from the minister and have the minister give that decision-making authority to a board, and then you disagree with the decision made by the board....
If you don't like what I do, you can vote against me; you can't vote against a board. How do you feel about that?Or do you want it to go to the board?
President, Fundy North Fishermen's Association
My thought on this, and I've been through it many times, is that I would like to see a board.... I take the FRCC as an example. There's one aspect lacking. The lacking is that the recommendation of the board should go to the public at the same time as it goes to the minister. The minister, as you say, is accountable to the people, and the minister is the people's access to overturn a decision of the board, but the board's recommendations are public.
I've been involved for five years in the southwest marine planning initiative in southern New Brunswick. With all the competing interests there and all the stakeholders that have conflict around the table, after five years we came up with the idea that we need a board that will publicly make decisions and make recommendations to the minister on things affecting marine space. The minister will either accept or reject, but at least a group will have the opportunity to arrive at a decision.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
So you want to make sure the decision comes from the bottom up and not from the top down all the time, although the final signature on the regulation or whatever has to come from the minister, bearing in mind that the suggestions that have been made by a board.
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good morning, Messrs. Thompson.
I will give you the opportunity to explain what you did not have time to explain earlier. You had begun to talk about a veto right with regard to the new Fisheries Act.
President, Fundy North Fishermen's Association
The Fisheries Act contained a lot of things, but to my understanding there were two things we really needed. One was that it would provide an opportunity to deal with what is termed the free rider issue, which I explained earlier with the wharf example. For example, if we wanted to do a little extra science in the lobster fishery, there is no mechanism. If we were to hire a technician to take samples of our lobster catches as an organization, we could not spread that cost over the fishery. Under the new Fisheries Act, I understand that we could enter into an agreement whereby the cost could be spread over the whole industry. That would make it more favourable for fishermen to try to do it, because nobody in a competitive position wants to pay the cost of something that's going to benefit everybody. They want everybody to pay.
Also, when you enter into an agreement with the government.... A board, as I said, would do the same thing. Right now we sit around the table, more people than are around this table, and we all offer opinions. They're diverse, and the general feeling is, therefore, to keep the status quo. We don't have consensus, so we have to have status quo, and there are issues.... I will run through them: eco-labelling, traceability, health, quality, overcapacity, organization, compliance, fuel costs, carbon footprint, species at risk, bait, and the lack of a dedicated spawning stock.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
You may have a lot of things to tell us in very little time, but I will not be able to understand you if you talk too fast. I would appreciate it if you could talk more slowly, not only for me, but for the person who is of great help to me and who is over there in that small booth. She was literally panting from trying to catch up. That's not right! I would simply ask you to show some consideration for the person who is greatly helping me trying to understand you.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
What exactly is a veto? You spoke about the veto, but you did not pick up on it.
President, Fundy North Fishermen's Association
As I mentioned, we have a list of issues that are facing our fishery. They are issues that require action, and my opinion is that the industry should be dealing with these issues, but when we talk about eco-labelling, traceability, quality of product, overcapacity, compliance, carbon footprint, or species at risk at a big table, we get a diversity of opinions.
Some of these are conservation issues. The department feels that it is their mandate to protect conservation first, so they will make the decision on conservation. However, something like fuel cost is a business decision. If we want to try to get a change in the fishing plan that would reduce fuel cost, that is a business decision, and if somebody says that everything is fine the way it is, then we can't move ahead. We can't address that issue because we don't have 100%. If one person says he has a 700-horsepower engine and can get to the fishing grounds three minutes faster than other people and therefore doesn't want any changes made, then that's a veto, as far as I'm concerned.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
What is the state of the lobster fishery in New Brunswick? The situation varies depending on the sector you are in. In some areas, there can be abundant resource, and in others, the opposite might be true. I would like to hear you talk about the zones or geographic sectors you represent in New Brunswick. What is the state of the resource?
Chair, Fundy Regional Forum
Yes, our lobster stock is very healthy. There are very good signs for our lobster stock. Everything looks good in that department. It's just that our product in the marketplace has depreciated so much. That is where our industry hurts right now.
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
In what zone do you fish? You say that the stock is very healthy, but is that the case throughout New Brunswick, or in your particular zone?
Bloc
Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC
Very well. Some fishermen think that a buyback program could be a very positive solution to eliminate some of the problems in certain zones. What is your view on such a licensed buyback program?
Chair, Fundy Regional Forum
My opinion on a buyback program is very positive. There are too many licences, too much pressure on the product, and too many lobsters being put on the market. A buyback program, I feel, would eliminate those problems. As well, it would mean fewer boats on the water, so the coast guard would have to look after fewer fishermen. There would not be as much that the protection division would have to look after. I think it would be a plus in all aspects of the industry.
Conservative
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be in Alma, New Brunswick. No matter where you go in this country, it's always amazing to see volunteers step up to the plate and take time out of their schedules to assist us in making deliberations for the minister.
I must say, Greg, when I heard your name I thought we were at the veterans committee. We can talk about Gagetown if you like. I'm just kidding.
First of all, how many lobster fishermen are we talking about in the Bay of Fundy?
President, Fundy North Fishermen's Association
Well, in district 36, which we deal with and which runs from Fundy National Park to the U.S. border, excluding Grand Manan we have 178 lobster licences. Grand Manan has roughly 130. District 35, which is from Alma around to Digby, has 95.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
What would be the approximate total value of that industry for the Bay of Fundy region?
President, Fundy North Fishermen's Association
Districts 35, 36, and 38 each catch about 1,400 tonnes of lobster annually.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
We heard in Îles de la Madeleine and Prince Edward Island that there was a concern about too many fishermen capturing too few fish in terms of a buyback program, yet in LFA 34 down in Southwest Nova, we heard that it wasn't a concern. At least, the ones we spoke to indicated it wasn't a concern.
Do you, sir, agree with the other gentleman that having too many fishermen is a concern? Would some form of buyback or rationalization of the fleet be something your organization would support?
President, Fundy North Fishermen's Association
In district 36, I would support it.
I think district 35, which is the same size in terms of water volume, has 95. They have about half the fishermen we do. I would like to see our numbers at around 145 fishermen in district 36. I would like to see a reduction.
The reason I would like to see a reduction is that these challenges the industry is facing are going to cost us money, and I need to have, as a fisherman, a little better income in order to deal with the costs that are associated, for example, with traceability. In the future, you're going to have to be able to tag every lobster you catch and track it to the consumer. For me, aboard the boat, it's going to require more manpower or a tool. It's going to require something. There's going to be more monitoring; we know that. There are going to be changes in gear to deal with the right whale issue in the Bay of Fundy; we have a right whale issue.
All of these things are going to cost money. For the industry, there are certain costs. The government will get this ball rolling, but if it turns out that this has to happen annually and forever, I'm sure the industry is going to have to bear part of the costs. This is why I'm saying we need a mechanism whereby we can contribute, but we also need the money to contribute.
