Fisheries Committee on April 2nd, 2009

[Neil Withers]

I'd been around boats for years and I loved it. I worked in B.C. for a year, in the forest industry, and came back home and decided I might as well do what I love, and that's fishing. I went back to work with an older gentleman as a deckhand. He was in his eighties, so I did most of the work, and I learned a lot. He's actually still fishing some with his son.

But I got back by doing that, and I told him that when he was ready to sell out, I'd be interested in purchasing. At one point, I thought he had sold it on me, because he didn't believe I could come up with the money. It was too much money for me, and he didn't believe I could get it anywhere. But then that deal fell through. He kept it for another year, and I told him to give me a year and I'd try to get things together. We fished together for another year, and that's when I started looking to borrow money to get into it.

The banks were more than willing to lend me the money, but they wanted collateral—the house, land, my parents' house, you name it, to cover the $250,000. So then I went to the BDC, and they were very helpful. They said that they'd come up with half, $100,000. And they passed another $50,000 through Charlotte County. They were good. I give them my year-end statements every year, and they keep checking on me. I haven't had any problems with my payments so far, but I'm worried. Last spring, when the price was down some, I caught more lobsters and made up for it. If I hadn't caught more lobsters, though, I would have been in trouble. The BDC, if you have a bad year, add it on to the end of your term to make it up. But they were only people who would look at me.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Where do you see the industry going? From your perspective, being relatively new to it, where do you see the lobster fishery going in the long term? What about getting into it at this stage? Is there anything fishermen should be doing differently from what was done in the past? I'd like to get the perspective of someone who's new to it. Where do you see it going, from what you've seen in the past?

[Neil Withers]

Well, when I got into it prices were running at around $6 a pound, almost double what they are now. My biggest worry was that I was new to it--did I know enough to catch enough to make the payments? In the first couple of years it was good. Last year I caught more lobsters, and I figured, well, this looks good. But I'm actually making less money now than when I started in the industry and didn't know as much about it.

As to where it's going in the future, I hope it's going to get better, because if it continues the way it is, and the price.... I'm just scraping by. Thank goodness my wife works to cover most of my payments. I'll cover my mortgage and what not, but it's tough at the moment.

As far as options for the future are concerned, there are lots of things being thrown around. Which is the best one I'm not sure. I don't know enough about the whole industry myself. All I know is how to catch them.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

And going to a quota system would have definitely handcuffed you last year, because as you said, in your first couple of years you caught enough, but then when the price went down, you fished harder and you caught more.

[Neil Withers]

Yes.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

So a quota system would be hard for someone in your circumstance to take on.

[Neil Withers]

Yes, in the first couple of years we caught around 8,000 a season. With the prices up, we did all right. But as you said, last spring and this fall when the price was down, if I hadn't caught those extra lobsters.... I don't know if I fished any harder. I might have fished a little bit differently, and thankfully the stock was a little better. I believe the fishery was better overall.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

How do you see us protecting that stock? From your experience, what would be the number one thing that we, you, everyone could do to protect the stock?

[Neil Withers]

What we're doing right now seems to be working, because in the last year or so my catch has gone up. There is a new fellow who has been doing it for just a couple of years. He's just young, he's only 22, and he's outfishing me. He's fishing harder than I am. He has a little bigger boat and he goes out in a little dirtier weather, but for him to just jump in and do that well makes me believe the stocks are healthy.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

So you're fishing only lobster and scallops right now?

[Neil Withers]

That's all I have a licence for, and for the port I'm in, those are the only two fisheries there are.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

How much did it cost you to get into the industry for a boat, a licence, the whole works--just so the committee can put it in perspective?

[Neil Withers]

Since I got in the prices have dropped. The price of licences has dropped because the price of lobsters has dropped. When I got into it four years ago, it was when the government handed all the money to the Indians and said, “Here is all this money, but all you can spend it on is a licence”, so it drove the price of them up.

I kind of lost track there. What was the question?

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

How much did it cost you to get in?

[Neil Withers]

Altogether, initially it was $200,000, and that was basically just for the licence. I got an old wooden boat and 300 traps. I ran the wooden boat for a year, and then a boat a couple of ports down came up for sale. It was a fibreglass boat, a lot safer. My parents encouraged me quite hard to get into a safer boat. They said, “If you need help, we'll get you into this boat”, so that's what I did. I sold the old boat for about $10,000.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Do you have anybody helping you, or do you fish alone?

[Neil Withers]

I have one deckhand. I might take an extra guy late in the spring when we're in a hurry, and maybe for the first week in the fall, when the catches are highest. We need a fellow just to...[Inaudible--Editor]...and we fish a lot longer days because that's when the lobsters are there. You have to get them when they're there. They move out of our area as the water gets colder.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Thank you.

I don't know if my colleagues have any questions.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Ferris, on the committee we've heard a lot of talk about the need for storage and the need for the orderly marketing of lobsters. In your presentation, I don't think you were overly complimentary about some of the storage facilities for lobster. Could you elaborate on that?

[Norman Ferris]

Years ago, when they kept lobsters in storage, in captivity--I'm not talking about the small buyers, I'm talking about big buyers--they fed them. With new technology they've come up with a formula so that they can store these lobsters in tubes, chill the water down, and hold them longer. I've asked questions about what this product is like when it comes out. I'm told it's good. Well, I don't know.

For example, I've caught lobsters in January and they were about two and a half pounds. I brought them home and cooked them, and they had nothing in them to start with. So how do they say this lobster is their number one lobster in their pound when they sell it? Do they X-ray that lobster before they sell it? This is just an example. When you hold a lobster that long it loses its flavour. That's what you're looking for, that good flavour. It's almost the same as going into a Sobeys right now and buying a plum or a peach. If anybody has been to Niagara Falls and stopped on the side of the road and bought a peach or plum out of one of those baskets, they'll know that the ones you buy in the store are no comparison. That is the same way with any fresh product. I honestly believe that when you hold a product that long without feeding it, it loses its freshness.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you.

Monsieur Lévesque.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Ferris, do you believe that better advertising and a faster release of stocks would allow you to increase the quality of your lobsters? Would a greater number of buyers help you work things out? There could also be fewer buyers but with a more direct access to the local market or access to international distributors. Would that be preferable to having a local processor buying directly from you and then dealing with redistribution?

[Norman Ferris]

I think we have to have our local buyers. It's not the local buyers. They move their lobsters quite quickly, because they can't afford to hold on to them.

What was the other question?

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Mr. Ferris, I was asking you about your ability to move your product quickly, and whether you had someone to market for you. In other areas, the suggestion was made that part of the income from the sale of licences be retained and that someone be hired to market the product in order to promote lobsters and share cooking tips to fully enjoy them. Would you agree with that?

[Norman Ferris]

Yes, I do. I believe marketing is the big thing. We have to get the word out to the tourists. I think that is a big thing in our fishery. We have to get the word out to the people about the freshness. And we have to get it through tourism. I think that if the government could send a strong voice in tourism to market our product, it would be of benefit.