On the first count, I would just like to say that outside 200 has always been an area that some people.... I guess, without a full understanding, even I myself would have said that “custodial management”, that fancy term that keeps coming up, would solve this whole issue. By that, of course, one would simply mean that Canada sets the quotas and Canada does the enforcement and all those things outside 200. But I defer to the experts who last studied this, one of whom was Dr. Arthur May, a former deputy within the federal system, and Derrick Rowe and Madam Russell, from one of the law schools in Nova Scotia.
Basically, what it came down to was just two simple things. First, on the high seas, outside 200, no country that I know of is anxious to entertain that kind of management. Second, no country I know of would want to give up their sovereignty when it comes to legal matters and have some coastal state do the actual management outside, lay charges, and take people to court.
All of that stuff is good, if there's international willingness and support to do it. But while you would have liked to have seen it, the same as we would have liked to have seen an extension of jurisdiction to the end of the Nose and Tail, as of now, sir, I couldn't see us getting anything much beyond what we got beyond 200 with this process.
As far as giving up, I just have to go back, again, and say that while this clause deals with people or countries coming inside 200, I think, in all fairness, that Mr. Applebaum gave a very clear answer to that when he was here last week. Can somebody come into Canadian jurisdiction without the request of the state, which is Canada? The answer he gave was one word: No. And that's the one I rest on, because he's an international lawyer who did this for many years. I was with him at many of the meetings. He was the lawyer for DFO in Canada. And when he categorically said no, that nobody can come in unless Canada requests it and then votes for them to come in, I take all the comfort in the world from that. I know that if a minister of the crown, whoever that person might be, were to acquiesce and say “Come on in and do whatever, I could get more access or get enforcement measures,” I would just say no. That's the simple way I would respond, the same as Mr. Applebaum said. It can't be done.