Evidence of meeting #12 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was farms.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

William Pennell  Acting Director, Institute for Coastal Research, Vancouver Island University
Brian Harvey  As an Individual
Martin Krkosek  Research Associate, School of Aquatic and Fishery Sciences, University of Washington, Seattle

5:20 p.m.

Research Associate, School of Aquatic and Fishery Sciences, University of Washington, Seattle

Dr. Martin Krkosek

As far as farmed salmon density goes, one thing that we've learned from the ecology of infectious diseases, epidemiology, is that disease dynamics are highly sensitive to the density of hosts. When you crowd animals together, or crowd people together, diseases tend to break out.

What this means is that there may be some things, like critical host density thresholds, where, within a region like the Broughton Archipelago, if the regional density is relatively low, there may be fewer disease problems. When the density is very high, there may be a lot of disease problems.

It's very difficult to say where that threshold might be, but I would say that it's likely a factor. It might be a reason why a place like the Broughton Archipelago transitioned from a place where we did not have sea lice problems to one where we do now. A similar thing has also happened in the Bay of Fundy in New Brunswick, where, as the density of farmed fish increased, suddenly sea lice emerged as a problem. It wasn't a gradual shift. It was a sudden shift.

As far as the position of DFO and DFO science is concerned, there's insufficient evidence to conclude that there is a problem with sea lice and Pacific salmon. I would disagree with that. I think there's ample evidence to indicate that we have a problem. I think there's ample evidence to indicate that the problem is a lot bigger than we think it is. It's more expansive spatially to other areas of British Columbia, as well as to other species of salmon. That would be my position.

Fin Donnelly NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC

Thank you.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

Thank you.

Mr. Calkins.

Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB

I'll keep going. I'll fire a few more at you, Doctor, and we'll see how this goes.

On the idea that tolerance to Slice may be becoming a factor in this one particular incident, would it not be more likely to be one of the other factors, given the fact that if it were a tolerance that was being built up, we would see it not only in one location, but we would actually start seeing it on a broader scale? I don't think we wouldn't see it in isolation. This appears to be an isolated incident. I would like to know what your scientific opinion is on that.

Second, as a scientist, you have a wish list. In your own research, what do you wish you knew that you didn't? What are some of the things that you would like to see, as far as complementary research happening on the Pacific coast right now is concerned, to complement the knowledge base, to fill in the gaps in the knowledge base?

I've asked this question before. I don't know if anybody's done any work or run a statistical model on it based on the known patterns of salmon migration. Is it possible for a pink emerging from the Fraser River to swim north and not come within...? Based on the patterns that we know, what are the odds of that young salmon that is swimming north avoiding a fish farm completely, versus not doing so? I don't know if anybody has looked at the statistics for that, but if you could enlighten me that would be great.

5:25 p.m.

Research Associate, School of Aquatic and Fishery Sciences, University of Washington, Seattle

Dr. Martin Krkosek

I'll answer the last question first.

In the Broughton Archipelago, we've been able to work out that the spatial sea lice footprint of an individual farm is about 30 kilometres, so in a radius of about 15 kilometres around the location of a farm, you will see elevated numbers of sea lice over what would naturally be there. If that same size of footprint holds for the Discovery Islands area, I would say that it is not possible for a juvenile salmon to migrate north on the inside of Vancouver Island without being exposed to a salmon farm.

On your first question, I agree that there are several explanations for why the Slice treatment in Nookta Sound failed. Resistance in sea lice is one possible hypothesis; there are others. It's not possible to distinguish among those hypotheses at the moment. The data is not here. Depending on that being an isolated event, that being unlikely, I think it depends on how much connectivity there is among sea lice populations on the coast there. We don't know how connected the population of sea lice in Nootka Sound is compared to other populations in B.C. If they're widely connected, then you'd expect to see the same treatment failures we saw there starting to happen elsewhere in British Columbia. At the moment, it's too soon to say.

As far as my wish list is concerned, I'd like to have accessible records on the number of fish per farm, as well as records of mortality events and disease outbreaks for all types of diseases for all farms in British Columbia. I think this is critical information that we need to look at to see if there is a reason why this could or could not be connected to problems in wild salmon productivity in British Columbia.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

On behalf of the committee, I thank you very much, Dr. Krkosek, for taking the time today to appear before this committee and answer our questions.

Committee members, if you have any witness lists, please submit them to the clerk, the analysts, or me. Please don't forget.

Once again, thank you very much, Dr. Krkosek. We really appreciate the time you've given us.

5:25 p.m.

Research Associate, School of Aquatic and Fishery Sciences, University of Washington, Seattle

Dr. Martin Krkosek

Thank you for having me.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

The meeting is adjourned.