Evidence of meeting #17 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was fishing.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clarence Andrews  Fisherman, As an Individual
John Sackton  President, Seafood.com News, As an Individual
Leo Seymour  Fisherman, As an Individual
Lyndon Small  President, Independent Fish Harvesters Inc.
Ray Wimbleton  Fisherman, As an Individual
Earle McCurdy  President, Fish, Food and Allied Workers
Trevor Decker  Director, TriNav Marine Brokerage Inc., TriNav Group of Companies
Phil Barnes  General Manager, Fogo Island Co-Operative Society Ltd.
Clyde Jackman  Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, Government of Newfoundland and Labrador

11:25 a.m.

General Manager, Fogo Island Co-Operative Society Ltd.

Phil Barnes

The biggest problem in the plants with the seniors right now is are they capable of doing the work, the output that's necessary to make your plant productive? We see a big drop in our direct labour costs. On a yearly basis, you can see the toll on the people. I don't know what kind of incentives you could bring in that would change the way they think or the output they could produce on a daily basis. I think our real issue is these people want to retire anyway. They've had enough, they want to get out. How do you replace them?

The question in my mind can be answered by saying it's technology. We know we have issues with bringing in outside workers, but I think we have to develop new ways of being more cost-efficient in our plants so we can pass that buck back to the fishers.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB

Incentives for technology investment.

11:30 a.m.

General Manager, Fogo Island Co-Operative Society Ltd.

Phil Barnes

I think so.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB

Okay.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

Mr. Decker.

11:30 a.m.

Director, TriNav Marine Brokerage Inc., TriNav Group of Companies

Trevor Decker

Thank you.

Many fishermen throughout Atlantic Canada are incorporated, and many fishermen operate their business under their incorporation. People have purchased these fishing licences through their incorporation. After being audited by Revenue Canada, it's been deemed a personal investment, not a corporate investment. This policy has been under review. Many fishermen, as winter audits, have not yet had this finalized.

How could the fishermen purchase these fishing licences by using their corporations? There's been a recommendation to the minister to allow 100% wholly owned corporations to purchase the fishing licence using company money rather than after-tax dollars. Right now, the only person who can hold that fishing licence is the individual. The individual would be buying that licence with what I understand to be after-tax dollars, so therefore there's an extra cost. The fisherman has to take the money out of his company, pay himself, then pay for the fishing licence through a mortgage he may have at the bank.

So allowing fishermen to invest in their business with their business money is what a lot of people are waiting for. Adequate financing for individuals and/or their businesses would allow the growth that many fishermen are looking for within the industry. This needs to be resolved now.

Also, I'd like to make a point on the financing. I liked the new entrant program when you were talking about it. The Nova Scotia fisheries loan board has developed a new entrant program, a lending program for new fishermen. So I would suggest the panel contact the director of the loan board, Bruce Cox, to see what they have done for their new entrants, their younger fishermen.

Thank you.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

Mr. McCurdy.

11:30 a.m.

President, Fish, Food and Allied Workers

Earle McCurdy

The final work on evaluating fish stocks always takes up most of the off-season to get it all done. It's hard to get final numbers, exact quota numbers, but I think there could be a higher level of openness in terms of communicating trends or directions ahead of time and some indication of what might be coming, even if the exact numbers aren't known. You might not know exactly what kind of quota is coming at you, but at least directionally are you going to be up or down? If it's going to be up, is it going to be significant? If it's going to be down, is it going to be significant?

I think there's room for at least getting that notice out early. It's pretty tough if a week or two before you're supposed to start fishing you find out all of sudden whether it's 13.5% or thereabouts that our 3K fleet got or 63% that the gulf fleet got. To get that virtually on the eve of the season is.... There's no good time to get it, but at least you can do the best you can to prepare for it with a bit more notice.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

Thank you very much.

Gentlemen, on behalf of the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans, I'd like to say thank you very much for coming this morning and bearing with us, taking the time to answer our many questions and to make your presentations. We really do appreciate your input. I want to thank you once again for taking time out of your busy schedules.

We'll take a short break.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

I call the meeting back to order.

We will take this opportunity to welcome Minister Jackman and Mr. Lewis here to meet with the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.

I know you are well prepared in what the committee's role is here today with respect to the snow crab industry in Atlantic Canada and Quebec.

Minister, I believe you have some opening comments.

Members, if we are all ready to begin, I'll ask the minister to proceed with his opening comments.

11:45 a.m.

Clyde Jackman Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, Government of Newfoundland and Labrador

Thank you very much.

We're a little bit late getting here; we didn't think we'd ever have to use the GPS in Deer Lake to find the spot to get to, but we managed to get here.

Thank you for this opportunity to meet with your committee to discuss issues related to the snow crab sector. I have a presentation that will probably take about 12 minutes .

Last year in this province approximately 2,200 individuals were employed in our fishery, and close to two-thirds of those participated in processing and harvesting of snow crab. These individuals come from some 450 communities throughout our province, primarily from rural areas where few employment alternatives exist. Snow crab has become the most important species in the Newfoundland and Labrador fishery, so there is a keen interest in ensuring that this resource is well managed for the benefit of our rural communities.

During the next few minutes I'll be providing a brief overview of the importance of this resource to the province, outlining our views on resource management issues, providing an overview of the growth and status of the crab harvesting and crab processing sectors, and outlining the importance of the fishing industry renewal strategy and the memorandum of understanding on fisheries, fishing industry restructuring to improve the viability of these sectors. Following these statements, I certainly would be open for questions for more detail.

During the 1970s a directed snow crab fishery started to develop along the northeast and south coast of this province, in NAFO divisions 3L, 3K, and 3Ps. During the mid-1980s to late-1980s, the crab fishery expanded to the west coast and to Labrador. During this developmental stage, total landings were modest and only a very small proportion of the harvesters and plant workers were involved. At that time groundfish were still the mainstay of our fishery, and following the groundfish moratorium in the early 1990s, a more lucrative shellfish industry replaced the tradition of the groundfish industry.

Due in large measure to the tremendous growth of the snow crab and shrimp resources, total production value for the province's seafood industry peaked at $1.2 billion in 2004, the highest level ever achieved, even beyond the best years of the groundfish fishery. Since then production value was relatively stable at approximately $1 billion annually until 2009, when the value fell to $827 million due to weaknesses in the market and the strong Canadian dollar.

In 2009 the combined landings for all species in our province totalled just over 300,000 tonnes with a landed value of $420 million. Our crab landings totalled over 53,000 tonnes, which was more than half of the total crab landings in all of Atlantic Canada, and had a landed value of $165 million, almost 40% of the overall landed value for all species.

For most of the 1970s, snow crab landings in all areas combined for less than 5,000 tonnes but increased to over 10,000 tonnes by the end of the decade. Crab landing were more or less stable at these levels during much of the 1980s. However, with the decline in the groundfish stocks in the late 1980s and early 1990s, quotas in landings for snow crab grew rapidly and peaked in 1999 at more than 69,000 tonnes. Since then, landings have never been less than 44,000 tonnes and over the last two seasons have averaged 53,000 tonnes, and for this year, the quota is a little higher at approximately 55,000 tonnes.

Even though the biomass appears to be relatively stable over the past several years and overall landings have been relatively consistent over the past decade, there has been great variability in certain zones. For example, in Labrador 2J, troubling resource indicators required that quotas be reduced in the order of 50% a few years ago. Fortunately, this strong action has had a positive impact and quotas have subsequently increased in this area. More recently, scientific advice in 3K and 3L, the areas with the highest crab quotas, has been inconsistent from year to year. It's clear that considerable uncertainty exists about the overall status of the crab resource, with survey results varying from area to area in recent time periods.

Given the dependence that now exists on the snow crab resource, any significant downturn similar to what has occurred in the southern gulf would be devastating for our fishing industry. Therefore, it is essential that crab receive a high priority for science expenditures, and an abundance of caution must be employed in managing this resource.

To that end, we strongly endorse means such as quota reductions where necessary and soft-shell closures. We also encourage DFO and industry to seriously consider establishing the use of cod pot escapement mechanisms and biodegradable materials as mandatory requirements.

Driven by the growth of the crab resources, but more particularly by the collapse of the groundfish stocks and the lack of fishing opportunities for fishing enterprises, participation in the crab harvesting sector has expanded far beyond any sustainable level. Prior to the mid-1980s, there were 71 snow crab harvesters in Newfoundland and Labrador. They were designated as full-time licence-holders. Virtually all of these licence-holders currently operate vessels that are in the 50-foot to 64-foot-11-inch range.

Initially these harvesters operated in areas fairly close to shore, but as access to the crab resource was expanded to include the small boat sector, these larger vessels have since been moved further offshore. They now harvest their crab between 50 miles to 200 miles from shore. In the mid- to late eighties, as the incomes for the groundfish harvesters suffered from declining groundfish resources and the value of the crab fishery became more evident, access to the crab resource was expanded beyond the initial full-time licence-holders to supplement declining groundfish revenues.

During the 1985 to 1987 period, approximately 650 supplementary licences were issued in 2J, 3K, 3L, and 3PS. Some supplementary licence-holders, in all areas, utilize vessels ranging from 34 feet, 11 inches, to 64 feet, 11 inches. In 1994 the supplementary fleet in 3L was subdivided into small and large supplementary fleets. The large supplementary fleet fishers fished farther from land in the same areas as the full-time fleet, and the small supplementary fleets fished inside the 50 miles. In divisions 3J, 2J, and 3K, the supplementary and full-time fleets fished in the same areas.

I know this is lengthy, but it provides the detail and background to point out some of the things we can't let happen again.

With the continued growth of the snow crab resource during the mid-nineties, and in recognition that the groundfish stocks were going to be more protracted than originally anticipated, in 1995 DFO issued 400 temporary seasonal snow crab permits to operators of vessels less than 35 feet to help offset the impacts of the loss of the groundfish. From 1996 to 1998, access to temporary seasonal permits was further expanded to include all heads of core enterprises with vessels less than 35 feet. The number of participating enterprises increased annually as overall snow crab quotas increased and groundfish declined, and the moratoria continued.

In 2003, the federal minister announced the conversion of these temporary seasonal permits to ensure snow crab licences. Any fisher who held a temporary snow crab permit in either 2000, 2001, or 2002 was eligible to receive an inshore snow crab licence. As a result of these various categories of licence over the past two decades, there are currently some 3,200 enterprises licensed to fish crab in Newfoundland and Labrador, of which nearly 2,500 are the inshore crab fleet of vessels that are less than 35 feet. These are traditionally fishing within 50 miles of land.

The crab harvesting sector is seriously oversubscribed. To a large extent harvesters are trying to make a livelihood on the strength of a crab resource that is spread too thin, particularly when market and exchange rates result in reduced raw material prices.

The high level of overcapacity also makes it more difficult to implement tough resource management measures when stock assessments suggest that quota reductions are required. Indeed, the FRCC report on snow crab in 2005 identified this concern and recommended that steps be taken to address the excessive fishing capacity.

Spurred by the tremendous increase in the crab harvesting capacity, which served to exacerbate the seasonality of crab landings, as well as the lack of recovery of groundfish, additional snow crab processing licences were issued in Newfoundland and Labrador. During the mid- to late 1990s, the number of snow crab processing licences more than doubled, ultimately peaking at 41 active plants. During the period from 1998 to 2003, it became increasingly clear to the provincial government that overcapacity in the crab sector could erode the industry's viability in the future even though good contribution margins in both the harvesting and processing sectors were still possible, largely as a result of the relatively weak Canadian dollar.

In 2003 there was a two-month delay in the start of the crab fishery because harvesters and processors were unable to reach an agreement on raw material price that would provide substantial returns for the large number of participants on both sides. The fishery finally got under way in June after the provincial government assured the processing sector that it would commission a review of the fish processing policy aimed at identifying measures to foster long-term viability.

In 2004 the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador implemented the recommendations of the Dunne report on fish processing licensing policy. As a result, this province now has the most rigorous processing licensing policies in Canada. New applications must go through a transparent approval process in which the proponent must advertise the intent to apply for a licence, and the application is reviewed by an independent licensing board, which makes a public recommendation to the minister. After receiving the board's recommendation, the minister retains the authority to approve or reject the application.

Under this new policy regime, the licence of a fish processing facility that has been inactive for two consecutive years is permanently cancelled. In addition, any inactive species authorizations associated with a facility licence will be removed after two years. The effect of this rigorous “use it or lose it” licensing policy has been to reduce the total number of species authorizations in the province's processing sector from 2,400 to less than 400. Latent capacity has been substantially eliminated.

In the case of snow crab, no new processing licences will be considered until a resource threshold, an average amount of snow crab available for plant, is achieved. The resource threshold for snow crab is currently 2,200 tonnes, whereas the average amount currently available per active plant is only about 1,500 tonnes. At today's quota levels, 10 crab processing licences would have to be eliminated before consideration will be given to issuing any new licences. Based on this more rigorous processing policy framework, there has been a reduction in the number of snow crab processing licences. In 2009 there were 33 active snow crab plants, a significant decline from the 41 active licences in 2002.

Nevertheless, despite the relative success to date of this passive policy approach to snow crab processing capacity rationalization, market weakness and a much stronger Canadian dollar over the past two years in particular have made it clear that a more aggressive approach is required. Building on the fisheries summit initiated by Premier Williams in cooperation with the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, our perspective governments jointly developed the Canada, Newfoundland and Labrador fishing industry renewal strategy, which was announced in 2007.

During this process, both our governments committed to creating a sustainable, economically viable, internationally competitive, and reasonably balanced industry that is able to adapt to changing resource and market conditions, extract optimal value from world markets, provide an economic driver for communities in vibrant rural regions, provide attractive incomes to industry participants, and finally, to attract and retain skilled workers.

Some key elements of that strategy included federal fleet rationalization measures, including new combining rules, revisions to vessel length restrictions to allow a move to vessels up to 89-foot-11, and facilitating the use of fishing licences as collateral; changes to capital gains rules applicable to the sales of the fishing enterprises; improvement to the provincial vessel loan guarantee program; further strengthening of the provincial process licensing policy; a provincial R and D program for the industry; provincial funding for market promotion; provincial funding to improve fishing industry occupational health and safety; and provincial funding for a workforce adjustment program for workers affected by permanent fish plant closures.

While progress has been made on the implementation of some key elements of the strategy, in the case of the harvesting sector rationalization—this is a really important point—DFO has not yet adequately addressed the issue of facilitating the use of the fishing licences as collateral. This has impacted on the province's ability to effectively modify its vessel loan guarantee program. While some permanent enterprise combining has occurred over the past two years even in the absence of these elements, harvesting sector rationalization efforts will not accelerate until they have been addressed.

The renewal strategy approach consists primarily of regulatory reforms that provide for a passive approach to the industry renewal. However, the global economic crisis, the cost of fuel, the adverse exchange rates that have arisen since the strategy was announced, have had a profound negative impact on our fishing industry and require a more rapid and more aggressive level of intervention.

The recessionary pressures of 2009 were quite alarming to our fishing sector and underscored its precarious position. The continued ability to maintain viable operations and to make a reasonable livelihood from the fishery has been called into question. Although there had been recognition during the development of the FIR strategy that this was the case, the recession delivered this message loud and clear. At the behest of the Newfoundland and Labrador fishing industry in July of 2009 the provincial government signed a memorandum of understanding with the Association of Seafood Producers and the FFAW, aimed at addressing and finding satisfactory solutions to structural, resource, market, and policy issues that negatively impact on the economic viability of the industry.

The Department of Fisheries and Oceans has committed resources from the Newfoundland and Labrador region in an ex officio capacity to work with the parties on these issues. Specifically, work under this MOU is building on the momentum of the FIR initiatives by focusing on the identification of more aggressive capacity reduction options, whether you're in the harvesting and processing sectors, and on the development of new seafood marketing initiatives.

The Government of Newfoundland and Labrador committed $800,000 to cover the operational and administrative costs to pursue the MOU objectives. Mr. Tom Clift, a professor of marketing with the school of business at Memorial, is overseeing the work being conducted under the MOU as the independent chair of the steering committee comprised of the FFAW and the ASP, as well as DFA and DFO officials from Newfoundland and Labrador region who participate in an ex officio capacity.

To date, financial assessments have been completed on the status of the fish harvesting and the fish processing sectors. The results indicate that a significant portion of our fleets and our processing sectors are not viable. Working groups are currently assimilating this information and developing and examining options to promote long-term viability--

12:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

Monsieur Blais.

12:05 p.m.

Bloc

Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC

I do not know how much time Mr. Jackman still needs, but there is a problem.

12:10 p.m.

Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, Government of Newfoundland and Labrador

Clyde Jackman

Just hang on a second. I have to get this translation device in gear.

12:10 p.m.

Bloc

Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC

There is a problem, Mr. Jackman: your comments are too long.

12:10 p.m.

Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, Government of Newfoundland and Labrador

Clyde Jackman

Too long?

12:10 p.m.

Bloc

Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC

Oui. I would like to ask a lot of questions.

12:10 p.m.

Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, Government of Newfoundland and Labrador

Clyde Jackman

All right. Just let me--

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

Let him finish his comments, Monsieur Blais. We did talk about this at the first, that it would be beyond the time limit. Minister Jackman obviously is here representing the Province of Newfoundland, and I think we should give him the due courtesy.

Please finish, Minister Jackman.

12:10 p.m.

Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, Government of Newfoundland and Labrador

Clyde Jackman

The other thing is that I'm hoping that each one of you will have a copy of this, because this speaks to the history of...I don't know if you could call them bad decisions that have been made, but certainly decisions that have gotten us to the point now where we have to do something to turn it around.

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

Carry on, Minister.

12:10 p.m.

Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, Government of Newfoundland and Labrador

Clyde Jackman

It's clear that the processing sector rationalization cannot be achieved without a concurrent reduction of harvesting sector capacity. Despite the high processing capacity levels that currently exist, gluts each spring are common, as a large percentage of the more than 3000 crab harvesting enterprises engage in the fishery at the same time, even though the extent of their fishing activity is usually only a few weeks.

A more orderly landing pattern brought about by major harvesting sector capacity reductions will facilitate associated reductions in processing capacity. The mechanisms to bring about this harvesting sector rationalization, and whether they will be self-financing or require government intervention, have not yet been determined. However, it is possible that these capacity reductions may be very costly, and to the extent that the fishing industry cannot self-finance the process, demands will be placed on governments to assist.

The other area of work under the MOU relates to seafood marketing.

Our industry is a predominant player in certain seafood sectors and should be able to achieve better returns. This is especially true in the case of snow crab. This year, we will account for 65% of all the North American crab supply. We are the dominant supplier in the marketplace, and we should be taking full advantage of this strength. This requires that we be as efficient as possible. While Newfoundland and Labrador has more than two dozen crab processing companies operating close to three dozen processing plants, Alaska, a key competitor, has four companies selling crab produced in 15 plants. Most Newfoundland and Labrador producers depend on intermediaries, such as brokers, to market their product, while Alaskan suppliers better coordinate their efforts and sell directly to end users.

Our industry has come to recognize that we are not being as efficient and effective in the marketplace as we could and should be. Consequently, the seafood marketing working group established under the MOU is actively engaged in identifying collaborative marketing opportunities with an initial emphasis on crab and shrimp. Some of the challenges that have to be addressed are underfinanced companies, the lack of collaborative marketing, the lack of continuity and stability, and an overdependence on brokers.

There is an important role here for the federal government in seafood marketing. Some valuable activities that can be enhanced are to work to reduce the tariffs and the trade barriers, including the removal of the EU tariffs on shrimp and crab; assistance with the formation of collaborative marketing structures to help processing companies market their products as efficiently and effectively as possible; assistance with eco-certification and eco-labelling of products; and continued efforts by trade offices in promoting Canadian snow crab in international markets.

In conclusion, the fishing industry continues to face challenging economic circumstances. The problems in the industry relate to a host of structural, resource, market, and policy issues that compromise the long-term economic viability of the industry. The current economic environment has exacerbated these problems, and the industry is seeking solutions to support long-term viability.

This matter is of sufficient concern to have led our premier to raise the issue twice with the Prime Minister over the past few months. The situation in which our province's crab industry currently finds itself has been created, in large measure, by the harvesting policies of the federal government during the 1990s. The inordinate expansion of the harvesting sector also contributed to the processing sector capacity growing to an unsustainable level.

When we developed the fish industry renewal strategy, both governments recognized that capacity adjustment is required. Unfortunately, the unanticipated challenges our economy has faced since 2008 dictate that a passive rationalization model will not bring about the required adjustments in a timely manner. More aggressive approaches must be examined. In particular, the federal government must find ways to bring about significant and timely capacity reduction in the harvesting sector.

It is likely that many small boat enterprises with limited resources will need assistance to rationalize. This may entail much more flexible buddy-up and combining policies, and quite likely significant financial inducements.

In recent meetings with federal government counterparts, I have concluded that the federal government appears to have no interest in financing the harvesting sector rationalization. This is not an acceptable position. In the case of the snow crab sector, the federal government chose the 1980s and 1990s to issue crab harvesting licences to virtually every fishing enterprise in Newfoundland and Labrador. While this served to mitigate the continued impacts of the groundfish crisis, we now find that the crab resource is so oversubscribed that even with reasonable margins, harvesters are unable to make a reasonable livelihood. This situation is compromising the viability of our fishing industry and indeed the future of our rural communities that rely so heavily on the fisheries. The federal government must acknowledge its responsibility for the extreme level of overcapacity that currently exists and actively participate in the necessary adjustment that must occur.

I thank you for the invitation. My point again is that even though it's rather lengthy, this document gives the background as to how we arrived at this place and, more importantly, the need for some activities to see how this fishery is going to be restructured and some of the requirements that are going to be needed along the way. I certainly hope you will take this and read it, as I've rather rushed through it a bit.

Dave and I would be more than willing to answer some questions.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston

Thank you, Minister.

Go ahead, Mr. Byrne.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Minister, for appearing before us. You've come a long way today. It shows that you take your own work seriously and responsibly and that you take our work seriously and responsibly as well. I appreciate that very much.

The buildup to your presentation was, in large measure, the MOU process, the actual working together of the federal and provincial governments with the processing industry and the harvesting industry, represented by the FFAW and the Association of Seafood Producers, among others. You indicated that the MOU process has been lengthy and involved, but that it has come forward with very specific recommendations and courses of action as well.

You indicated that there is no interest on the part of the federal government in rationalization, which may be costly and has been identified as somewhat of a priority, especially when current economic circumstances in the industry do not allow it to self-finance.

Could you first report to the committee the reaction by the federal government to the MOU request for cooperation and participation? Would you be in a position to actually share with the committee the MOU? Is it still a working document, or is it at a point now that you could actually table a copy of the MOU with the committee? In any case, if you could report to us where the federal government stands on the various elements, it would be very helpful to us.

12:15 p.m.

Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, Government of Newfoundland and Labrador

Clyde Jackman

The MOU process is relatively new. It was last July that it was signed. The fishing industry renewal strategy was in 2007.

Things have been rolled out of that, and many things are still unfolding around the MOU, but I think what struck us more than anything is that the economic situation you mentioned has brought us to a point where we now recognize that we have to be more aggressive in approach. I've said publicly that I don't know if throwing money at it is going to be the solution, but somewhere along the way we will need some assistance from the federal government.

The MOU process that's under way right now, as you indicated, involves the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, the FFAW, and the ASP. My take on it is that we have to put together a strong plan to take forward to the federal government. The federal government then, we would expect, would be a part of this process, because they are an integral part of awarding licences. I presented and pointed out in this document the history of issuing more and more licences, and although it may have been under political pressure and whatnot, the issuing of more and more licences has created a situation whereby someone in a 35-foot boat who has only a 10,000-pound quota of crab and a small quota of cod and some other species just simply can't make a viable living anymore.

The indications we have from the federal government are that there doesn't seem to be any appetite for throwing money at it. Maybe that's because of the taste that was left in the mouth by the moratorium or whatnot, but we haven't got an indication that they're willing to put any substantial amounts of funds in there.