I'll try to be brief. From 1997 to 2001, when we were acting under a five-year plan, industry contributed more than $2 million to the DFO to undertake science. We found, though, that after a few years, science was acting on its own and coming up with schemes and systems telling us what the results would be. They were suggesting the range of catches and all that sort of stuff. So we started to pull back on our financing; in fact we reneged on it.
I have found almost every year since, when we go to the science meetings, something new has happened without fishermen being involved. When we talk about the precautionary approach now, to my knowledge, fishermen were never involved in the process leading up to the final determination of the precautionary numbers that were mentioned.