Fisheries Committee on June 7th, 2010

[David Bevan]

I think from an economics point of view, obviously there are hardships. We used to have people come in and out and in and out. There was a great deal of controversy, conflict, and confrontation around that whole process. A decision was made some years ago to say you're all in, you're going to ride it up, and you're going to have to live through the lean times. Instead of having some people in and some people out, we took a decision years ago that everybody would have to try to make it through the cycle on their own resources.

At the top end of the cycle this last time, there were average incomes that were very good. That's why now, even with lower incomes, if you look at the overall cycle there are still a half a million dollars per enterprise. That's not based on what's going on now. That was based on $800,000 plus at the top, and averaged out with the lower at less than $200,000 at this time.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

There seem to be some examples of good management. At least it appears to me that through area 19, Fogo Island, there are some shining examples that could be expanded upon, built upon, and supported in other areas.

Do you have a comment on that?

[David Bevan]

We used to have co-management agreements in all of area 12. There was a great deal of controversy. As we go through these parts of cycles, it gets very difficult. As we went through the upswing part of the cycle, there was a lot of controversy around introduction of new players and participants and how they were handled as things went down.

We essentially lost our co-management arrangements because of access and allocation issues in area 12. That was further exacerbated by the fact that we had to respond to the Larocque decision and to other court decisions. Our flexibility on how we entered into those was reduced, particularly under the old fisheries act. That's why in the subsequent drafts of acts that were considered there were provisions to allow for that to continue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you.

Ms. O'Neill-Gordon.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank you for being with us again today.

You mentioned along the way that it's because of the cycle, and we're very much aware of that. We've heard that when we have visited the different fishermen in different areas.

You also mentioned you are predicting that in the year 2012 we'll probably see a much better year and things will be better. I'm wondering if you can elaborate on some reasons why. What are some things that make you predict that for 2012? Is it just the cycle?

[Marc Lanteigne]

As regards the annual survey, I mentioned that we are very good at predicting with good accuracy what's coming in the following year. When we do the survey we monitor the number of crabs that will be in the fishery in two years, three years, and four years time. After that it becomes pretty foggy. We cannot catch these very small crabs in the trawl.

Our prediction for 2012 is based on the crabs we see in the trawl survey that we predict will enter into the fishery. We see the spike of small crabs getting ready to enter the fishery in two years. Again, we see that, but we'll have a better evaluation of the quantity of crab the year before they enter the fishery. We can see a good signal for young crab coming into the fishery in two years.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

You would say then that by next year, 2011, you will be able to predict what there will be for 2012.

[Marc Lanteigne]

Yes, we'll have a better picture for the two coming years.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Are fishermen aware of this? They always claim they are kept in the dark. They must be aware of this as well.

[Marc Lanteigne]

Fishermen in the southern gulf are aware of this. They were part of the assessment, and the information was also distributed to the other representatives. It's also available on the web. In the southern gulf, science and fishermen have a good relationship. They contact us directly to get the copies of all the assessments, the reviews that are published on the web, and also maps of our survey--where the distribution of crab is for 2010 or the following season.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Do you have something to add, Mr. Paradis?

[Sylvain Paradis]

No. But as he mentioned, all this information is provided when we do the peer review meeting. The industry is participating, so they have a chance to see the number, ask the questions, so they see the same trends we're predicting. And all this information is tabled publicly before it's brought to the minister for a decision, so there are a lot of opportunities for the industry to see all this information.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Earlier you mentioned trying to slow down the reduction. I'm just wondering what you were doing in that set. What were some of the means?

[David Bevan]

The advice was we were in a downward trend, and the risks were that we would see the need for further reductions. If we didn't take the reductions earlier we'd see the need for bigger ones later. Those were the risks, and the view of the stakeholders was pretty clear. We had reductions that were larger than they had asked for, or they had asked for fewer reductions in some of the points leading up to this part of the cycle. As I mentioned, we did come from a high—and I can't recall the TAC in 2005—at the last part of the--

[A voice]

36,000.

[David Bevan]

It went from 36,000 down to 20,000, so we have had lots of reduction. It's just that they were concerned that we were going too fast, and at that point there wasn't a huge risk of saying if you're prepared, if you want us to do that you can, but you'll have to be prepared for the bigger reduction later on. And I think with the precautionary approach now, we know where we are relevant to the limits, and we are going to have to take it more based on conservation.

As you go through the cycle, as well—and this is the same for many fisheries in the precautionary approach—if you're in the green zone, the healthy zone, there's a lot of flexibility as to what the market looks like, what the opportunities are, to set your TAC with more flexibility. As you move from that down into the cautious zone, you lose that flexibility. We can't rely on what the stakeholders want and the market wants. You have to set it to get out of that place and back into the healthy zone. So that's where we are right now, and in the past we weren't there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

On behalf of the committee, thank you very much, Mr. Bevan, Monsieur Lanteigne, and Monsieur Paradis, for taking the time today to come and appear before the committee to answer a lot of the questions we've had from our travels here in the last few weeks.

Committee, we will take a short break and then we will move in camera for committee business.

[Proceedings continue in camera]