Fisheries Committee on March 24th, 2010

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

I'm sorry--how much?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

There has been $8.5 million paid out to fishermen in Atlantic Canada and a very minimal amount for the administration of that.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

So only half of the actual fund was dispersed to fishermen?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

It was better than half. Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Byrne.

Monsieur Blais.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Good afternoon, Ms. Shea, and good afternoon to the ladies and gentlemen accompanying the minister.

First of all, I also want to join in extending a special welcome to David. We are quite pleased to see him again and I am not saying this because those who replaced him were not up to the task. We are simply very pleased to see him again.

I have a number of questions to ask, but first I would like to get back to what my colleague touched on, in other words the direct assistance program to deal with the lobster crisis.

Very serious problems have arisen over the last few years. Finally, in 2009, there was some budgetary appropriation, but I was expecting, perhaps naively, that the $15 million that was announced would not be enough. I will not pass on the comments we heard in Quebec and that I forwarded to you, as to the amounts that were finally granted to Quebec fishers. In fact, it amounts to $8.5 million out of a $15 million program.

I do wonder about one thing: was the direct assistance program requested of Treasury Board by the department something makeshift? Were the figures wrong, or the calculations? I would have preferred to have heard that $15 million was not enough, that we are asking for $20-odd million, that we will find some other way and work together to make sure that there will be more money invested into this program. Given the fact that $8.5 million has been spent out of a total $15 million earmarked for emergency assistance to the lobster industry, it would seem to me that there is a serious management problem here. I would like your explanation on these figures.

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Blais.

Back last spring, when we were approached by several fisheries organizations representing lobster fishers in Atlantic Canada, their outlook at the time was certainly very bleak. One of the issues they raised was that they didn't think they would even sell enough product to qualify for employment insurance. So we as a government developed a program with criteria whereby if a fisher saw a significant decrease in income--25% from lobster fishing--and had income of less than $50,000, that person would qualify for a type of one-time payment. The fact that only $8.5 million has gone out the door should be good news, because the season ended up actually with an increase in landings, which mitigated the loss in revenue.

So the fact that not as much money has gone out the door as might have gone out the door is actually good news, because the season was not as bad as they had been anticipating, and fishermen actually did qualify for EI.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Of course, everybody knows that figures can be misleading, depending on the way in which they are viewed. Kind of like a glass half full or half empty. It may be satisfying to some, but dissatisfying to others. That is what this figure does. I could tell you about quite specific situations where lobster fishermen did not make $55,000 in income, but they do have additional income because they managed to do something else. They had to because 5,000, 6,000, or 7,000 pounds of lobster was not enough for them to earn $55,000. The individuals in question—I am referring to fishers from Baie-des-Chaleurs and Saint-Godefroi specifically—caught other species. Therefore, their income increased. In the end, they managed to overcome the crisis they have already been dealing with for a number of years. When the time finally comes to receive a certain amount of help, they are unfortunately not able to deal with the situation.

The same thing occurred in the Magdalen Islands where so many conservation efforts have been made over the last few years. Out of 180 requests to the department, only five fishermen received help. You can practically name them one by one. That is what leads me to say that it makes no sense and that the criteria need to be reviewed.

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

One of the criteria was that they had to be lobster-dependent. If they fished another species and made more money from the other species, they were not lobster-dependent. The fact that they made more money is a good thing.

In the case of the Magdalen Islands, the fishers there do reasonably well. I commend them for all the conservation measures they have taken to look after their fishery and to look after their future.

But this was not meant to be paid out to everybody. It was meant to get to those who most needed it and who saw the biggest decline over 2009. That's why the criteria were written as they were.

[Raynald Blais, Bloc, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

On the other hand, with respect to the shrimp industry, I have had the occasion over the last few years to criticize a number of the department decisions.

There is one question I have been wondering about regarding an assistance program that has been reviewed over the course of the mandate of almost three fisheries and oceans ministers. I am raising this issue so as to decrease the cost of licenses for shrimp fishermen in Quebec. In Quebec, they need to pay between $20,000 and $25,000 to obtain a license. The license costs far less in other areas. For instance, it costs $500 in Newfoundland. For the last three years, if I am not mistaken, people have been analyzing this file, but at some point enough is enough. Some action must be taken. These people, year after year, experience their own difficulties and could benefit from a reassessment of the cost of licenses.

I know that the department has already examined the issue, but when can we expect to see the light at the end of the tunnel in this file?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

We have made a commitment to a licence review to be completed by 2011, and we're still on track for that. Of some of the changes we've made to the shrimp fishery in Quebec, we have made temporary allocations permanent with shrimp because the fleet in Quebec wanted to restructure and it was very important to them that their allocations became permanent, so we did that. Also, many of our free trade agreements that have been negotiated, and are being negotiated, will benefit the shrimp industry in Quebec and benefit other Canadian seafood as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Donnelly.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd also like to say thank you to the minister for coming to the committee today.

I have several questions regarding both coasts' fisheries and coast guard.

My first question is pretty straightforward. I'm wondering what the department is doing in terms of the tuna crisis off the east coast.

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

As you know, bluefin tuna is currently being discussed at Doha. In a committee meeting last week there was no support to list it as an endangered species. Our position has been clear from the beginning.

CITES is an organization that deals with trade restrictions and does not deal with fisheries management. Our position is that we believe tuna should be managed under a regional fisheries management organization known as ICCAT, the International Commission for the Conservation of Atlantic Tunas.

Canada exports about 95% to 99% of the tuna it catches. If this had been listed as an endangered species our fishery basically would be wiped out, while other countries that consume tuna domestically would continue to fish. So listing tuna as an endangered species actually would not have brought the result that we need to get with tuna. We need to manage the fishery, not the trade.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

I'll go back to the snow crab issue. There was a transparent and open process that happened and involved many parties and gave them an opportunity to voice their opinions on how to share that resource. I'm wondering why you, Minister, would dismiss the actions that they took and take direction only from one side of the industry. Specifically I'm wondering why you overturned a decision by Minister Regan made in 2005 where he agreed with the recommendations from an independent panel on snow crab that had been set up by DFO after many years of conflict within the industry to get stability.

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

The panel provided advice, and I guess it depends on how you interpret that advice. Our decision was to gain equity among the licence-holders. So every licence-holder now receives the same amount of quota. I do realize there are a number of fishers that are attached to each licence, and some more than others in some cases, but this fishery has now been stabilized. On a go-forward basis, if the quota goes up or down, that's how the shares will be divided. It depends on what the interpretation of the panel advice was. We've seen it as equity among the licence-holders.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Just to follow up on that, the panel suggested that 40 to 60 tonnes of snow crab were more than sustainable for an individual licence-holder, which is approximately in the range of $140,000 to $200,000.

Why do you disagree with this and now allocate up to 116 tonnes, which is approximately $383,000 per individual as an equal footing or equitable...?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

I don't think it's about what an equitable licence is. You can say this could be worth up to $240,000, but it also could be worth $100,000 before expenses. That would all depend on the price, and it does also depend on the availability of crab. As you are probably aware, right next door in the gulf now we are dealing with a severe decrease in the biomass, so the crab numbers are not always as high as what they are right now. They are very cyclical.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Okay, thank you.

I'm wondering how the department is addressing the increasing sea lice problem associated with salmon farms in aquaculture. I'm shifting to the west coast now.

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

We monitor with the province the sea lice issue on the west coast.

Maybe one of my colleagues might be better equipped to speak to that.

Fish farms are required to keep records of their issues with sea lice and to keep records of when they have to treat for sea lice. It is my understanding that those records are available to the provinces. The province is still the managing body for aquaculture in British Columbia.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Are they available to the public?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

It is my understanding that this has been an issue in the news just recently. I couldn't answer that because we wouldn't have those. The Province of British Columbia would have them currently.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Kamp.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for appearing. I know you are a little under the weather, so I appreciate your coming.

To begin, I do want to thank you for the interest you have taken in B.C. issues. You have been out there a number of times, and I know it is really appreciated by those of us from there.

You mentioned the hovercraft that was announced in the budget, and I want to thank you for that as well.

Could you give us just a bit more detail perhaps on what your expectations are in terms of timing on the Fisheries Act or when we might proceed with that as a committee?

[Gail Shea, Conservative, Egmont, PE]

We are currently still working on our legislative plan. We do hope to roll that out in the not too distant future. I would hope this committee would play a big role in getting the Fisheries Act from where it is now into law, because it is very important to the industry across the country. The act is more than 140 years old now, and as I said, I've talked to many fisheries ministers across the country who have all requested that we attempt to get this act passed. They have said they would definitely support us in that.