Fisheries Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2011

[Chief William Cranmer]

We were opposed to the open net fish farms because of our knowledge of their history in Europe, in Norway, Ireland, and Scotland. Wherever there are fish farms, the wild species are affected. It's a known fact. So we were concerned about that.

We probably could have been the open net fish farm capital in British Columbia if we had agreed to work with the fish farming companies, but we were very afraid that it was going to kill off the wild salmon. I think that's why a lot of first nations in British Columbia are interested in a closed containment system, because that would isolate the farming from the environment and the wild salmon. That's basically it.

When DFO came around asking for our input on why we were so opposed to the open net fish farms, we told them, “You know, if DFO would enforce the Oceans Act, would enforce the Fisheries Act, there probably would not be one fish farm in the ocean here in British Columbia.”

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

As well, Chief Cranmer, is there anything that you think is unique about the 'Namgis First Nations location, or your human resources, your assets, your experience, your particular governance, or any other factors that make this pilot project that you're involved with possible? Are you that different from, say, any other first nation in British Columbia?

[Chief William Cranmer]

Of course we like to think so.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Chief William Cranmer]

The site is perfect for this closed containment project. That was confirmed by the experts from the Freshwater Institute in the United States. As I said, we've been operating a fish enhancement project in the Nimpkish River for well over 20 years. We know fish, and the groundwater available on that particular site is what's required for this kind of an operation.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Do you feel there are other first nations in British Columbia, just in your opinion, that are ready to move to closed containment? If they were to get into it, do they have similar assets or abilities to what the 'Namgis have?

[Chief William Cranmer]

When we tell people about this project, they want to know all about it. Of course, probably the main thing that would stop them from doing it is the cost. It's quite an initial cost, but we hope that when we go to the commercial size, which we think we'll be able to do, it will be a profitable project.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

I have just a quick follow-up on that. Just looking at your numbers here, 260 metric tonnes is your pilot, and then you're looking at expanding to 1,000 metric tonnes at some point.

If I have those numbers correct—and feel free to correct me if I don't have those numbers right—how long do you anticipate before getting up to the production of 1,000 metric tonnes, and do you anticipate any additional funds would be required to get you there? Once you are at 1,000 metric tonnes, how many jobs do you see associated with that level of production?

[Chief William Cranmer]

I'll let Eric answer that.

[Eric Hobson]

The first thing we're going to do with the module is increase the density from 260 tonnes up to 390 tonnes. We're going to test the first two cohorts at 50 kilograms per cubic meter density. We're going to take the next three cohorts up to 75 kilograms per cubic meter. So within two years following the start of construction, we should have answered the question the pilot is being built for: Is it technologically and economically viable to actually expand the facility?

If it is, if the answer is yes, then you get some economies of scale by going from 390 tonnes per module, up to 1,000 tonnes or above, in that the site is already there. It's mostly prepared for more modules. The cost of the equipment will start to come down because there will be bigger orders going in for equipment. Energy usage will have been optimized, etc., so the economic model will be better as you get larger.

Sorry, what was your other question?

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

There are two others. How long will it take you to get to 1,000 metric tonnes, and how many jobs will be related to the 1,000 metric tonnes? Do you have a guesstimate?

[Eric Hobson]

If we start expanding in three years, it will take one year to expand to 1,000 metric tonnes.

My guess is there won't be a lot of incremental employment created. Once we have this thing built and automated, if you like, then I think four to six people will be able to run the larger farm.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Donnelly.

We'll move to Mr. Sopuck.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

There have been a lot of general statements about the effects of net-pen aquaculture on wild salmon stocks. I'm always suspicious of very general statements, so I'm asking you a specific question: Do you have any quantitative evidence detailing the effect of open-net pen aquaculture on wild salmon stocks? I emphasize the word “quantitative”.

[Eric Hobson]

I think if you go to our website, saveoursalmon.ca, you'll find probably 20 or 30 research papers that have been written on that exact subject over the last five years and that I think will quantify the impacts not only in B.C. but also all over the world.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

I've been told that net-pen aquaculture off the B.C. coast has been going since about 1985. So we're talking 25-odd years. I checked with DFO last week and I asked for a quick report on the state of the salmon runs in the last few years. They wrote to me and said:

In 2010, Fraser River sockeye returns were 30 million, the best return since 1913.

In 2011 that return was 4.5M, which is the average return for that year.

I'm quoting from this e-mail they sent me:

2011 was a good year in general for all salmon species in virtually all BC river systems. Skeena River sockeye above expectations. Barclay Sound (west coast of Vancouver Island) sockeye same. Smith's Inlet in the Central Coast had a commercial sockeye fishery for the first time in 15 years.

Pink salmon returns in both Skeena and Fraser are doing very well in last few years.

And informal reports are that 2011 was the best recreational salmon fishery, coast-wide, in many years.

Would you have a comment on this?

[Eric Hobson]

If you go back 20 years and look at the Fraser River sockeye productivity over the last 20 years, you'll see it's about a 45-degree angle downwards to 2009 when there were just over a million spawners that returned to the Fraser. I'm talking about sockeye. Then there was this large return that you talked about in 2010, 30 million fish, and then back to 4 million or 4.5 million this year.

If you talk to the scientists, they will say that's either a presence or lack of disease in the stocks. Of course the Cohen commission hearing has gone into great depths about disease, using the records provided by the salmon farmers themselves in the province of B.C. It was hotly debated, and there's a lot more work being done in that area.

I'll say one thing about the five or six years I've been involved in this issue. When I first got involved, the salmon farmers did not really treat their fish for sea lice. They didn't use the therapeutants they're using now. I think part of it was not only the science but also the public pressure that was brought to bear on the farmers, such that they manage their farms much better today than they did five years ago. The harvest before the out-migration of the smolts is one operating plan that they have. They treat their farm salmon with this lice treatment usually in January or February prior to the out-migration, forcing the lice off their farm fish. That helps the smolt survival rate.

So they've made a number of moves to react, if you like, to the problems that these farms were causing to the smolts. I think that's had a positive impact.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Okay, thanks. I don't have much time left, and I have a couple of other areas to get to, if that's okay.

In terms of rural impacts, I've been informed that about 6,000 full-time jobs are supported by net-pen aquaculture in coastal communities where jobs are hard to come by. Since closed containment aquaculture could potentially be done anywhere, would a major move to closed containment aquaculture tend to close down coastal employment opportunities, if closed containment aquaculture systems move inland and have an effect on coastal community employment?

Right now I should make a point as well that there are two Hutterite colonies in Montana that are starting to raise coho salmon.

So what would be the rural impacts if this were carried to its logical conclusion?

[Eric Hobson]

First, I think the rural areas are exactly where these farms will be located. They won't be located next to cities; the land is far too expensive. So they'll be located in rural areas like the north island, or the Fraser Delta.

To answer a little further on Mr. Donnelly's question, I think a lot of the estuaries in B.C. are first nations territories. I think estuaries make perfect locations for closed containment farming applications. You want to be as close as you can get to the feed production areas, which are largely vegetable-based, with some fish meal and fish oils added.

So it is a rural activity, as farming is elsewhere.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Prairie Canada, where I come from, has very low land costs. Manitoba, where I'm from, has the lowest hydro rates in North America. I agree that these will be located in rural areas. It's the coastal communities that I would be the most worried about if this were to be carried through to its conclusion.

You talked about the higher prices that your “green salmon” will get. Basically, you would be producing a high-priced niche product for a wealthy market, whereas right now farmed Atlantic salmon are price-wise within the reach of many middle-class people. Do you have any comments on that?

[Eric Hobson]

I think the premium will be about 30% over the base price for current farmed fish. So yes, there is a premium. If the open net cages were charged a fee for dumping their waste into our oceans, I would say that probably their cost of production would be higher.

If you were to match the environmental footprint of a net cage to the environmental footprint of a closed containment farm, by, if you like, taking a fee on the difference between the two and their impact on the environment, I think you'd see the price come in much closer.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Thank you. My time is up.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Mr. MacAulay.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you.

I want to welcome both the chief and Mr. Hobson.

Chief, when you made your opening statement you mentioned that the open net was affecting the clam beds. I'd like you to comment further on that.

[Chief William Cranmer]

We have reports from our clam diggers that the clams close to the open net fish farms produce soft, dark, inedible meat. The beach also has an awful smell to it.

These observations are from our clam diggers, so it does have a serious effect. Clams are one of the foods that first nations eat.