Fisheries Committee on Dec. 6th, 2011

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I'm sorry, sir, but I think it's more of a market question. If people are convinced they should not eat something that's produced in a certain climate, they will not. I'm just trying to understand what effect you're having with this labelling.

[Blendle Scott]

We're altering the choices of consumers.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. MacAulay.

In a follow-up to Mr. MacAulay's question, Mr. Scott, I understand you made a clean shift from open-net pen aquaculture to closed containment aquaculture salmon. There was never a time in that shift that you offered both products.

[Blendle Scott]

That's not true.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Well, that's what I'm asking.

[Blendle Scott]

We started with education of our consumers. We felt we should let the consumer make the choice. They could buy wild, penned, or closed containment salmon.

Over the last year and a half, we've seen a decline in Atlantic farmed salmon and an increase in wild and closed containment salmon. We let our consumers make the choice over time, but the amount of Atlantic salmon being sold in our stores got to be insignificant to our total salmon business. When a customer doesn't want a product, then we take it off the shelf; that's just natural in the grocery business.

Over the last 18 months we've reduced our dependence to the point that when we finish with the bit of smoked product in inventory, we will no longer have any products that will be Atlantic pen farmed salmon. We let the customer make the choice. If they had continued to purchase the product, we would have continued the educational process. But ultimately they vote with their dollars, and in business that's what we chase, right?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

That's what I was asking.

How much product, in pounds, would you sell on an annual basis? I'm trying to get an idea of what sort of magnitude we're talking about here.

[Blendle Scott]

We are a privately held company, so we don't disclose financial information, but our share of salmon sales within the grocery/supermarket business, as measured by ACNielsen, would be at the appropriate share. In other words, if we have a 10% share of the market, we have a 10% share of the salmon market. We're not disadvantaged, if that's what you're asking, because we've chosen to educate our customers on different choices. We sell our share of salmon, and our salmon sales are up, at a higher rate than the market growth today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedules to meet with us today and answer our questions. We really do appreciate the information you've brought forward to the committee. It will certainly be very helpful as we go forward with our study.

On behalf of the committee, thank you once again.

We'll take a short break while we set up for our next presentation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

We'll start then. I apologize for the technical problems we've had here this afternoon.

Welcome to our committee. Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule.

I'll let you proceed right into your presentation, Mr. Dean, and we'll follow up with questions after that. Please start any time you're ready.

[Guy Dean, Vice-President, Import and Export, Albion Fisheries Ltd.]

Certainly.

I don't really have much of a presentation prepared. I'll just outline who I am and who we represent.

My name is Guy Dean. I'm the vice-president and CSO for Albion Fisheries. CSO is the chief sustainability officer. Albion Fisheries is the largest seafood distributor in western Canada, with a head office in Vancouver as well as an office in Victoria, and we have distribution centres in Victoria and Calgary. We basically service all of western Canada, both in retail and food service.

We mentioned our focus on sustainability. Sustainability has become extremely key and core to our business. We've been involved in and focused on sustainability for over 10 years now. Over the last five years we've certainly noticed a tremendous increase and interest in offering sustainable products within our marketplace.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much, Mr. Dean.

We'll move right into questions with Mr. Hayes.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Hi, Mr. Dean. Welcome.

Just to get an understanding, it states that you work with Vancouver Aquarium's Ocean Wise program. I read up on that, and it indicates that this program was created to educate and empower consumers about the issues surrounding sustainable seafood, i.e., it helps buyers make ocean-friendly buying decisions.

Can you elaborate a little about what the Ocean Wise program says about open-net salmon technology and its sustainability?

[Guy Dean]

Certainly, I can provide some insight.

It's important to note that we are a founding supply partner with the Ocean Wise program, but we're also involved in a number of NGOs: the Marine Stewardship Council; ASC; and SeaChoice. Ocean Wise is just one of the partners we have.

With regard to the Ocean Wise program, they have established criteria on how they assess fisheries and aquaculture and how they assess the sustainability of those fisheries and aquaculture initiatives. As long as their assessment criteria fall under specific guidelines and meet specific criteria, then, from their perspective, it can be deemed sustainable. They have taken an open-net pen farmed product and deemed it sustainable. There are a whole bunch of criteria that they look at to make those assessments. They're not opposed to it in any way. Some of the criteria they look at are the protein to feed ratio, the impact on benthic environment, the environmental environment, and management of the aquaculture and farming initiative.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Does your company actually sell and distribute salmon raised in the open-net technology?

[Guy Dean]

Yes, we do. It is the number one item that we sell.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

You hold a Bachelor of Science in marine zoology. Are you familiar with the open-net technology, and do you have any issues with environmental concerns?

[Guy Dean]

Yes, you're correct, I have a degree in marine zoology. In fact, my first job within the industry was to help run a salmon farm back in the infancy stage when salmon farming first started. There are well-run companies out there, and managed properly, I believe that open-net and aquaculture are extremely viable food sources.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

When you were actually working in the industry, what was your experience?

[Guy Dean]

As I pointed out, I started during its infancy, over 20 years ago. We were a bunch of dreamers who thought we were going to feed the masses and change the world by offering farmed seafood. At the time, there was a strong learning curve. We learned a lot about the rights and wrongs and what was correct and wasn't correct.

Again, that was 20 years ago. For example, what would you do with fish that had naturally died within the pens? Nobody really knew what to do with them at the time. It wasn't until afterwards that permits and actual regulations started and there were specifics on how to discard that product.

The industry has changed dramatically over the last 20 years. It has become more international in scope. We've gained a lot of knowledge on farming practices from Norway, Chile, and other countries.

My concerns way back when were predation—how to deal with seals—and the impact on the benthic environment. If you're in a site that doesn't have heavy flush, you could get a buildup of feed and fecal matter underneath the pens, and that is not healthy for fish in general. It's not healthy for the marine ecosystem.

Obviously, there was the issue of escape. I don't think there has been any clear science-based research to prove that alternate species of Atlantic salmon have been able to interact and reproduce with our natural wild stock. There is the issue of predation and certain river systems being taken over if it got out of hand. At this point in time, it never has, so it's never become an issue.

Certainly there are other issues that are of concern now. There are biohazard issues, food safety issues, and the debate about sea lice, of course. Really, I'm not a scientist. At this point in time, it's not for me to say. I don't have enough research to gain an opinion or to make a comment on that.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Hayes.

We'll go to Mr. Donnelly.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Dean, thank you for taking the time to come to the committee to provide information and to answer some questions.

My first question is whether Albion Fisheries has a position on closed containment.

[Guy Dean]

Certainly we have. We believe that closed containment is a more viable option and provides far better food safety. By managing the water temperature, the water quality, and the outside environment, we can produce seafood at a far greater rate, at an economical level, versus open-net pens. That is based on the research we have seen over the last two years. In some cases, we can probably produce product 75% faster than in open-net pen aquaculture, depending upon whose data you look at.

We think it is a more viable option, from an environmental perspective, so we are strongly putting our support behind closed recirculated aquaculture systems.