Fisheries Committee on Dec. 8th, 2011

[Catherine Stewart]

At current levels of production, I personally don't think that's possible. I think part of the impact that we have to address is not just the technology itself, but also the cumulative impacts of multiple farms in given areas and the location of those farms on wild salmon migration routes. All of those factors contribute to having an impact that puts it into the unsustainable column.

While acknowledging that the industry is certainly on more responsible footing than it was 20 years ago, I don't think you can ever really overcome some of the hurdles or inherent flaws in the technology itself.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Do I have more time? Okay.

Just very quickly, then, if you go to a full closed containment system, all located on land, and you've got these containers, what would their lifespan be? What is left when that lifespan is done? What kind of environmental impact would you have from that?

[Catherine Stewart]

I honestly can't answer that question. I think that would be well addressed to some of the folks who are actually operational experts. My understanding, from what I've heard, is that it would be 20 to 25 years, possibly quite a bit longer. Perhaps a way of answering that would be to look to some of the hatcheries that have been in operation for an extended period of time, because closed containment technology is really a bigger hatchery.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Donnelly, I believe you're going to share your time with Mr. Cleary.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Indeed, I'll share my seven minutes with Mr. Cleary.

Ms. Stewart, welcome, and thank you for providing your input and testimony to the committee.

Picking up on Ms. Davidson's questions, in your opinion what form of fisheries method is the most sustainable? If I were to give you three options, wild caught, the open net pen as it's currently done, or the closed containment systems, which would you say is the most sustainable form?

[Catherine Stewart]

That's a tough question to answer, Fin, because I think we have to look....

When you say wild caught, are you talking about bottom draggers or about selective terminal fisheries with hook and line? Are you talking about endangered Cultus Lake sockeye fisheries or are you talking about abundant Nass-Skeena sockeye? It totally depends on the gear type, the health of the population--

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Yes, I was talking about the current commercial form and all that it includes. Obviously, there could be improvements to the open net pen, and I guess you could make that argument that there could be improvements in closed containment, which is largely theoretical, with some pilot projects in place. Obviously, it's a really hypothetical question, but I've been asking other witnesses what their opinion was on that.

[Catherine Stewart]

Okay.

If I envision a future for my grandchildren, I would like to see a combination of closed containment aquaculture with responsible wild fisheries. The wild fishery, obviously, needs to be selective. It needs to be controlled. It needs to be appropriately targeted at the right stocks, using the best possible gear type—and on and on goes the list.

I think we place a tremendous value on our wild salmon and wild caught fish, and I certainly hope there's a future for the wild fishery. That's one of the reasons why I hope our government will address the whole host of threats posed to the viability of our wild salmon stocks, including the impacts of open net cage aquaculture.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Great. Thank you.

I have one more question before I turn it over to Mr. Cleary.

If the aquaculture industry continues in its current form or even expands its operations--I'm thinking mostly on the west coast, but of course this includes the east coast as well--in your opinion how will that be received by the public five years, as well as ten years, into the future?

Also, could you comment further about the role of market campaigns by your organization and others that are a part of CAAR. We've heard of other organizations that are also involved in market campaigns, so could you comment on the impact that market campaigns have on industry and other businesses?

Thank you.

[Catherine Stewart]

Sure.

To start with public perception, as you all are very aware, I think the issue is extremely polarized in British Columbia. I think the polling that has been done over the years has shown us that the vast majority of British Columbians who are aware of the issue are very concerned about the impacts of open net cages. The Cohen inquiry has enhanced that concern and increased the level of awareness.

A poll that CAAR conducted about three years ago, asking whether citizens in British Columbia would favour government investment in fostering the development of a closed containment aquaculture industry, showed that 81% in total strongly supported and supported that happening. That was the total, and the level of strong support was high, with well over 50% expressing strong support. I think there's very, very strong support for maintaining an aquaculture industry, but transforming it into a more responsible industry, such as land-based closed containment.

The impact of market campaigns is similar to the impact of any campaign. It's about creating awareness. What I spent many years doing with CAAR was meeting with grocery retailers and chefs and restaurateurs, informing them of the available scientific information about the impact of the net cages and encouraging them to adopt responsible purchasing policies. That has spread. It has certainly not been isolated to farmed salmon.

There have been campaigns around tuna, particularly blue fin tuna, and a constant raising of awareness in the retail grocery sector and the restaurant industry. As you heard from my colleague, Ms. Roebuck, the other day, most of the major retailers in North America and in Europe are adopting sustainable seafood purchasing policies and phasing those in over the next few years. Increasingly, there is going to be demand for responsibly produced farmed products and responsibly harvested wild fish.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Mr. Cleary.

[Ryan Cleary, NDP, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Stewart, for appearing before the committee.

I have two quick questions.

You spoke in your opening remarks about managing the risks of open net aquaculture. So my first question is very straightforward. Are you concerned about recent cuts, maybe even impending cuts, to Environment Canada and the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans and the ability of both departments to regulate open net aquaculture?

[Catherine Stewart]

I am profoundly concerned about that. I think it's going to have a major impact on the industry.

I think you need to look to the testimony offered by conservation and protection staff to the Cohen inquiry, who stated that they didn't have the capacity to adequately enforce and monitor the industry—and that was prior to the most recent round of cuts.

Yes, I think it's a big problem.

[Ryan Cleary, NDP, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Thank you for that.

My next question expands on one that Mr. Donnelly asked a little earlier. You mentioned how eventually you would like to see a combination of closed containment aquaculture and wild fishery. But in terms of a timeline for closed containment, what do you think would be a reasonable period of time to actually embrace closed containment and be there in terms of that technology?

[Catherine Stewart]

Well, I think that ten years ago we said that it would be five years, so honestly, I would have to say as quickly as we can.

I think there's an economic factor that needs to be taken into consideration here. You've heard from Overwaitea Food, which is purchasing closed containment farmed coho from the United States. You've heard about the Hutterite colony in Montana that is investing in closed containment. In West Virginia, there's the Freshwater Institute. These are all supported and are growing, and they are going to continue to grow to meet the rising market demand for responsibly produced salmon.

I think the train is leaving the station, and I'm very concerned. Canada has an incredibly good reputation for our fisheries and the provision of goods to the marketplace, but we're going to miss the train if we continue to debate the merits and pros and cons of the issue, and if we don't start investing now in what's going to be the technology of the future, and what the marketplace is increasingly demanding.

I don't know about a timeline for a complete transition, but I would say that the timeline to begin that investment and transition is now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Kamp.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Catherine, for appearing. It's good to see you again.

Your title I think is “salmon farming campaign manager”. Can you tell me what this campaign is that you're engaged in? What are the components of it and its goals and so on?

[Catherine Stewart]

Sure. I work with the Living Oceans Society. We currently have three members on our campaign team—we had four, but a woman just went on maternity leave.

One part of it was to reach out to the restaurant industry and chefs. My colleague Kelly is working on sustainable seafood policies with the retail grocery sector. I'm a jack of all trades. I was a witness at the Cohen inquiry, where I was subpoenaed to testify for two days. I've worked on government relations, closed containment, markets, and concerns around enforcement and regulation. My colleague Will, who is based in our Sointula office, is primarily focused on incidents and practices in the industry—because he's based adjacent to the Broughton Archipelago—and also on new farm applications.

Then, as part of the CAAR coalition as a whole, I was also on our negotiating team for our relationship with Marine Harvest. We are also party to the Broughton area monitoring program, which we developed in conjunction with Marine Harvest, and we brought on board the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and the other two major aquaculture companies.

As well, we have a closed containment team. Also, we are represented in the Salmon Aquaculture Dialogue on the certification issues by our colleague at the David Suzuki Foundation. Living Oceans also published a report recently on the variety of certification labels and eco-labels that are out there.

So we cover a lot of ground, a host of issues.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Can you tell me where you get the funding to be able to do all of those things?

[Catherine Stewart]

Sure. Some of it is through individual donations from Canadians, supporters, and sometimes from outside Canada. And some of it is foundation funding.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Is it true that the vast majority of the funding is from foundations, and American-based foundations, particularly?

[Catherine Stewart]

The bulk of it is at the present time, yes. Like all groups, we're working to build our membership and supporter base.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

In the campaigns you run--and here I think I probably know the answer--do you believe you're providing an objective set of information to people you're contacting, for example, chefs, and so on? It's clear that you're pretty negative, pretty pessimistic, about the current state of aquaculture that we see in British Columbia, primarily.

[Catherine Stewart]

We pride ourselves on providing factual information. And yes, I bring a bias to this. I believe the weight of evidence is clear: net cages are having a profoundly negative impact on our ocean ecosystems and on wild salmon. I believe the scientific studies indicating that are abundant.

But like any party to this debate, we'll present the information in a way that is going to best inform our argument. We don't misrepresent the facts. We present accurate, factual information. The individuals we are speaking to are going to get information from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and from the aquaculture industry, which is going to present the facts in the best light possible for the open net cages.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Would you agree, Catherine, that there are reputable scientists who disagree with some of the conclusions in the studies and information you are providing to the people you come in touch with? Do you disagree that there are different positions?