Fisheries Committee on Feb. 6th, 2012

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you. I think my time is up.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Allen.

Mr. MacAulay.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Welcome, gentlemen.

I understand that last month the minister announced $800,000 for the Namgis First Nation's closed containment. Can you give me an update on that facility and what the status is right now and what the funding would be used for in this project? To follow on the previous question, should there be more of this or less of this?

[Guy Beaupré]

I'll ask Alistair to provide you with the details on the $800,000 for the Namgis First Nation.

[Alistair Struthers, Team Leader, Innovation, Aquaculture Management Directorate, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

I don't have a specific update as to exactly where they are, but I believe the vast majority of the funding is being used to purchase capital equipment--tanks, water filtration systems, and that type of equipment.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Would the investment be to find new information, or is it more of an investment in making work?

[Alistair Struthers]

It's not so much a make-work project; it is very much a pilot-scale facility to test the pre-commercial scale of Atlatic salmon production.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

So this will be different from other projects that you have funded previously.

[Alistair Struthers]

Yes, and it would certainly be the largest type of project that we have funded along those lines. There are a number of other contributing partners as well; it's not just DFO.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Mr. Struthers, what is being focused on in terms of innovation in your department right now? How will these projects affect the future of salmon farming? Is innovation in this area more the duty of the government or the private sector, or both? How do you see it?

[Alistair Struthers]

I think it's actually a duty of both the sectors. It's a duty of the government to help innovation. Certainly from DFO's perspective with the aquaculture innovation program, the focus of that has really been to encourage pre-commercial-scale development of different technologies. It's helping industry adopt those technologies.

There are a whole host of innovative techniques or innovative projects the department is helping or contributing to. We have closed containment, but we are also looking at the whole spectrum of sustainable aquaculture production, from cage-based culture to shellfish culture as well.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

It seems to me there is a fair difference.... It looks as though fish has to be more expensive before it's profitable. Are you striving for technology that would finish the fish more quickly? Is there a possibility that this can happen more quickly or more efficiently in closed containment than it can in the open-net concept? What are we doing? Or does it just have to be a more expensive fish in order to make--

[Alistair Struthers]

No. That's one of the premises behind closed containment, that it can shorten the grow-out cycle of the fish.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Does it?

[Alistair Struthers]

That is one of the goals of this project with the Namgis First Nation. In theory, it should, but it's never been demonstrated in real, commercial-scale production. That's the whole goal of this project.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Does the density have a major effect? Can you comment on that?

[Alistair Struthers]

The density is higher. The density is approximately--

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

No, but does more and more density affect the growth a lot, or is there a point where it does affect the growth?

[Alistair Struthers]

At the projected densities they're looking at, it shouldn't affect the growth. We're looking at approximately three times the density of open-net pens. With any growth trials we've seen for fish at 15 kilograms per cubic metre versus 50 kilograms per cubic metre, the growth is approximately the same.

The biggest controlling factor there is a stable year-round temperature.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

In fact you're telling me you can produce three times the amount of fish in the closed containment that you can in the open net.

[Alistair Struthers]

Within that cubic metre of water, yes, we can. The reason they're striving for increased density is to be able to take advantage of the increased cost of the capital assets. As you know from previous testimony at this committee, the costs for a closed-containment system versus a net-pen system are significantly different. You're looking at--

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

It's more expensive?

[Alistair Struthers]

--about seven and a half times.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Of course we have to have the technology, because Chile and other countries have it, and if something happens, we have to know what we're doing if we're going into this area. Would that be one of the reasons for putting a lot of money into this?

[Alistair Struthers]

It's certainly one of the reasons. Canada, in my opinion, is a world leader in the use of closed-containment technology, certainly from the perspective of recirculating systems for juvenile production. That's the hatch reproduction.

Now we're being asked to look at how this technology would be applied for the entire grow-out cycle, and that is the big question. It has never been done. Well, it's never been done successfully. It's been attempted numerous times, and there have been a number of financial failures.