Fisheries Committee on Feb. 29th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

I call this meeting to order.

I'd like to thank you gentlemen for joining us this afternoon. Hopefully, you can hear everything all right.

I believe the clerk filled you in. We generally allow about 10 minutes for presentations and opening statements, and then we move into questions and answers. If I interrupt you, please don't be offended. Our members are constrained by certain time limits for both questions and answers, and in the interest of fairness, in order to try to get as many questions in as possible, I may have to interject every now and then.

Mr. Mayor, I'd like to thank you for being here today, and I'd like to ask you to make any opening statements or comments, and to introduce your associate, if you don't mind.

The floor is yours whenever you're ready to proceed.

[Gerry Furney, Mayor, Town of Port McNeill]

Very good. Thank you very much.

Greetings from the Town of Port McNeill in the Regional District of Mount Waddington, British Columbia. I thank you for your invitation to make this presentation.

My associate for this presentation is Neil Smith, who is the manager for economic development for the Regional District of Mount Waddington. I am the mayor of Port McNeill and one of nine directors of the Regional District of Mount Waddington. The regional district has kindly supplied a supplementary information brief to my presentation, which Neil will present.

In our respective roles, we represent our regional district, which is the senior level of local government responsible for, and dedicated to, the economic activities that enable our citizens to enjoy living in this most beautiful area of northern Vancouver Island and the nearby area of the British Columbia mainland. The area of our regional district is about 20,000 square kilometres, which is three and a half times the area of Prince Edward Island. There are four municipalities in the district: Alert Bay, Port Alice, Port Hardy, and Port McNeill, with a combined population of about 7,700 people. There are a significant number of rural settlements as well, including many first nations communities throughout the region, with a total population of about 4,000 people.

Our economy is dependent on our resource industries such as forestry, mining, fishing, aquaculture, and tourism. All, except tourism, are generally active throughout the year. Tourism is limited to the summer season, in which we enjoy many visitors from other parts of British Columbia, the Canadian mainland, the nearby U.S. states, and even from Europe and Asia.

Our population is relatively stable and we have learned to live with the fluctuations that so many areas of our country experience in being dependent on these resource industries.

The aquaculture industry is relatively new to our province and to our region. It has been developing gradually over the past 30 years, and has concentrated the majority of its activities to the farming of Atlantic salmon, with some production of Pacific Chinook salmon as well. The natural environment throughout our region is ideal for aquaculture. Our sparsely populated region provides an ideal environment for producing a magnificent quantity of fish, and on a year-round basis.

Many first nations people have taken advantage of the employment opportunities that have arisen due to the development of the aquaculture industry. They have been slow to get involved due to anti-aquaculture campaigns sponsored by environmental groups that are funded by wealthy U.S. foundations to the tune of millions of dollars over the past 20 years. These are the same foundations that followed the same practices to fund the anti-mining and anti-forestry campaigns that almost brought those industries to their knees. This steady pattern of funding anti-development activities in British Columbia is difficult to understand, especially when it is funded by foreign organizations.

In one conversation that I had with one of our senior provincial cabinet ministers, I urged him to take some meaningful action to offset the damage that was being done to our resource industries by these foundations and their disciples. His answer shocked me when he told me the reason we couldn’t fight them was that they had more money than we do. In retrospect, what my friend the cabinet minister described to me was the worst type of bullying. The rich guys were using their money to bully those less fortunate. The real victims of these bullies were not the provincial or federal governments, but the ordinary people who were being stymied in their efforts to make a living in industries such as forestry and aquaculture.

Aquaculture is an ideal way in which to employ people who wish to work in isolated communities. The pristine conditions that are naturally available in these rural areas make it desirable economically for the industry and for those who wish to live in these areas. Many who live here are first nations people who have traditionally earned their livelihoods from fishing.

Fishing has changed over recent years through improved technology with larger, faster boats. It does not provide the number of jobs that it did in the past. For isolated native bands, such as the Kitasoo on the northwest coast, aquaculture has proven to be a real boon to the members of the band there, where the majority of the population is actively and proudly engaged in producing farmed fish for market.

There are many other places along the coast that could be just as successful as the Kitasoo, and where all the conditions exist for successful natural aquaculture to develop. These areas would not benefit from closed containment systems as all the natural conditions are there already. Closed containment, with the huge capital investment that it requires, could not be justified in these isolated areas. Any businessman who is prepared to invest in closed containment facilities is going to build such a system as close as possible to the marketplace to lessen transportation costs and avoid the cost of housing for employees.

Different attempts to develop closed containment have been tried over the years, and have not proven to be viable. Currently, there is an experiment under way near Campbell River, which represents a huge investment—the kind of investment that would be difficult to justify on the basis of a normal business decision.

There is another project in the planning stages for an experimental, land-based, closed containment system near the Nimpkish River, close to Port McNeill. There is only limited information on the project, which involves the participation of the Namgis band on whose land it will be situated. This is a major opportunity for the band and for the industry. There is a well-worn cliché that “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. We presently have an efficient and financially effective system of salmon farming along our coastline, which grows salmon in closed containment for the first one-third of the fishes' lives and transfers them to net pens for the next two-thirds of their lives. This has proven to be a tried-and-true system. It is beneficial to the individual employees, and it contributes to the provincial economy on a year-round basis. It provides a first-class quality of fresh fish that is welcomed by chefs and diners everywhere.

In summary, I take a very positive approach to any activity that produces a high-quality food and provides employment for people who enjoy living in rural coastal communities. I have observed fish farming operations in Norway, Scotland, and Ireland, as well as here in British Columbia. Fish farming is a boon for the people in each of these places and continues to develop and improve its methods and its products with fish produced by the more natural process of open-net pens.

Year-round, family-supporting, aquaculture jobs, and the spinoff-service jobs they provide, are a crucial part of the north of Vancouver Island. Because of this we feel DFO should be granting additional permits and licenses to allow for an increase in the number of fish-farm sites and the allowable capacity of each. Aquaculture is a very important part of our economy and an industry that could employ many more people, if given the opportunity to expand.

I'll introduce Neil Smith.

I'll answer any questions that may come up on the basis of my presentation so far.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor.

We'll move into questions at this point in time.

Ms. Davidson.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

Thanks very much, gentlemen, for joining us this afternoon.

We've been doing this study for quite some time, and I'm sure that you're aware of some of the information that we've been hearing from different witnesses.

Mayor Furney, I'd like to say congratulations to you on your long run as mayor of your community. Certainly it sounds as though you've contributed a great deal, so congratulations on that.

[Gerry Furney]

Thank you.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

One of the things that we've been hearing quite a bit about from some of the witnesses concerns the issue of employment in isolated coastal communities and then the opportunities, and that if we go to closed containment aquaculture, these areas may not be the preferred site. I think you talked a little bit about that. Could you just expand upon that a little bit and tell me what it has meant to your rural coastal communities, and what a change to containment might mean if they're moved to different sites?

[Gerry Furney]

The logical position to take on this is that the closer to the marketplace that fish farms can be created, the less the cost of transportation of the product to the customer. Sadly, if the system of closed containment was the only system acceptable to us all, provincially and federally, then there would be very little, or fewer and fewer, opportunities to employ the people in the areas that are far away from the transportation routes and from the areas in which the product is being consumed.

Plain logic says that if you're going to do something like this and spend millions of dollars in creating an on-land system, that land system is going to be as close to the marketplace as possible, which takes away the opportunities from the people who otherwise would be employed, if they were living in an isolated area and utilizing the natural conditions in that area to produce the product.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Are there other things that could take up that slack of unemployment in your areas?

[Gerry Furney]

The sad thing is that there is very little that can make up the kind of employment that is available, or that would be available, if we continue with the regular forms of salmon farming.

The ideal situation.... As I mentioned in my presentation, the Kitasoo area of the mainland coast—a couple of hundred kilometres beyond the end of Vancouver Island—has no other opportunities to employ people. There are people who previously would have been in the crew on fish boats, gillnetters, and seine boats, which, in past years, were quite heavily labour intensive. The average crew on a seine boat would have been about seven people. They've been able to reduce that down to three or four people with the faster methods of fishing that they've developed today. It's the same with gillnetters. Gillnetters have virtually disappeared on the coast. There are very few of them left, and very few trawlers left. They all had high-employment capability, but unfortunately, that doesn't exist anymore.

With the pressure on other industries, such as mining exploration and forestry, in particular, there are fewer opportunities in the forestry industry or mining industry to employ people along the coast north of us.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you.

In the brief you presented to us, you mention a little bit about what you call bullying. Today is supposed to be anti-bullying day, and here we are hearing about bullying in the aquaculture industry. You mentioned employment opportunities that have arisen. You said that many first nations have been slow to get involved due to anti-aquaculture campaigns.

Can you talk a little bit more about that?

[Gerry Furney]

I can, and I took off my pink sweater so that I could actually present in a more respectful set of circumstances to you. I'm very conscious of bullying and I have watched it exerted by these organizations that have been funded by money from outside the country, in most cases.

I've seen it happen in the forest communities of British Columbia, and particularly on Vancouver Island in areas such as Ucluelet and Tofino on the west coast, and areas around Campbell River north. The amount of land that has been taken away from the forest industry is astronomical. It is shocking to see so much land untouchable in the future because of the various designations for purposes that have been imposed on those areas.

They are areas where we would normally have had hundreds of other people working. At one time, when I was working in the forest industry, we had something like 30,000 members in our union—the loggers' local. They made one that covered our area here. That union today is represented by the steelworkers because, by themselves, the loggers didn't have enough numbers to justify a national union. I think the membership is down to something around 10,000 people from the original 30,000, which was the number when I started working as a logger.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you very much, Mayor.

I'd like to ask a question of Mr. Smith, if I may, please.

We had a supplementary brief sent through and in it you mention local economic impacts. You note that there was a marine economic study done in partnership with the Living Oceans Society, and with Environment Canada resources. A copy of that report was provided in person to a member of Parliament when the member visited Port Hardy on February 25 of this year.

I wonder, could you circulate that to the staff because I don't believe the rest of us have seen that report. You're encouraging us to read it, so if you could see that it gets to the clerk of the committee, the rest of us would like to read that, please.

[Neil Smith, Manager, Regional Economic Development, Town of Port McNeill]

It's no problem at all.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you.

Mr. Donnelly.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to both our guests. Mr. Mayor, welcome to the committee. I appreciate you both being here and taking the time to give us your testimony.

Mr. Mayor, I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the local situation in terms of the local reaction to open-net aquaculture. Could you provide a bit more insight on how the commercial fishers, the sport and recreational fishers in the area, those who are in the tourism industry, the first nations, and those concerned about the Broughton Archipelago feel about aquaculture? Are a large majority supportive, or are they largely opposed to open-net aquaculture? What's your take on that?

[Gerry Furney]

I would say that the biggest problem we have is that the number of campaigns and the money spent on those campaigns have been very effective in denigrating the potential that aquaculture has as an employer in our area. Some fishermen are actively against aquaculture, and I can understand why. They see it as a challenge to their own product and marketplace. However, there are many fishermen who have managed to overcome their initial distaste for the industry, and are now working with the industry transporting fish, among other things. Many of the crew are working in a processing plant in Port Hardy, which is just about the largest employer in Port Hardy, and I might add, is a steady year-round employer.

As far as the environmental situation goes in Broughton, it is a beautiful area, and I believe the effect of aquaculture has been greatly exaggerated by the proponents of the anti-aquaculture campaigns. We don't have the funds or the expertise to counter that in any way. There are organizations like the Living Oceans Society that are funded very well. They're probably the largest employer in some of our communities because they have so many people working for them. How they can generate that kind of funding, I have no idea. I understand that the majority of the funding comes from outside our province, and mostly from the United States.

That's a very difficult thing for ordinary people like ourselves to stand up to. There are many people who would love to see aquaculture given the kind of credit that it should be given as an employer and a contributor to our whole economy—not just the local economy, but the economy of British Columbia.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Mayor, you are on record as being a very vocal supporter of aquaculture expansion. You mentioned in your opening remarks that you feel that open-net fish farming is an effective and efficient system.

I'm wondering if you can tell the committee how many new fish farms have come online in the last two or three years in your area.

[Gerry Furney]

As far as I'm aware there have been no new fish farms in the last couple of years.

I should emphasize that I'm not involved in the aquaculture industry whatsoever. I have absolutely no investment in it. I've carefully separated myself from any activity that could be seen as being supportive or benefiting in some way from the aquaculture industry. I think it's worth clearing up that point right at the beginning. I should have included it in my brief.

I believe that the aquaculture people themselves have the statistics on it. Neil may have some details on it that I'm not aware of. I don't follow it day by day or hour by hour, the way that Neil has probably kept an eye on it.

I'll ask Neil to elaborate on my response.

[Neil Smith]

There are no new farm sites in the Regional District of Mount Waddington, but there are two existing farm sites. I believe they're known as Duncan and Doyle, in either electoral area A or B. They have undergone a significant expansion of their capacity in the last 18 months.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

If the Namgis project proved successful, moved into the area of closed containment aquaculture, and increased the number of jobs in the area, would you be supportive of that endeavour?

[Gerry Furney]

I would, as long as it could be done economically and practically on a continuing basis. There have been a couple of situations in the south end of Vancouver Island where on-land aquaculture was started, but didn't succeed in the long run. It was mentioned that there is one operation in Campbell River right now. At some time next year, they'll be able to harvest fish from it.

I'm very interested in how that works out and who's actually paying the bills. It must involve a huge investment of money in capital costs and operating costs until there is a reward or payback from the product that's produced. In the case of the Namgis band close to Port McNeill, I'm totally supportive of it. I think the Namgis people have a long record of involvement with the fishing industry. Some of them have actually changed and are now beginning to look at fish farming in a practical sense.

Again, the funding is a question. If the funding continues for it, regardless of whether it's making a profit or not, it will function and employ people. I think that will be wonderful. Jobs are very important to every single one of our communities. Unless there is long-term funding that can overcome the other costs involved in on-land fish farming, I don't believe it can succeed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you.

Mr. Leef.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

And thank you, Mr. Mayor.

I noticed on the last page of your submission you said you were supportive of fish produced by the more natural process of open-net pens. I wonder if you're specifically referring to that as being a more natural process for the salmon, or if you're referring, as well, to it being a more natural process for the people involved in the industry as a cultural and traditional way of life.

[Gerry Furney]

I'm not an expert on what the cultural desires or leanings of all the people would be. I can only judge it as a person who functions in the area, as first nations people and non-first nations people have done for the last 50-something years. Because of that, my understanding of it is that I would like to see us maintain, as much as we can, a natural environment for people to work in, similar to the one they have already grown up in—in other words, as deckhands on fish boats and as owners of smaller fish boats.

I think it would be wonderful if we could keep those people employed one way or the other, but I am aware that to do it economically will be a real test. I will be one of the strongest proponents of on-land fish farming if it proves to be economically viable. That's the key point. It has to be economically viable. In some of the areas that have the potential, such as in the Kitasoo, where most of the employment in the community is in fish farming and processing fish, if they could do that, then I believe they could continue to function as a group in a healthy way. The thought of putting an on-land system up there is probably very impractical just because of the sheer cost of it and the fact that the amount of employment would probably drop if that were created there.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Thank you. I think the committee's very interested to see what happens with the Namgis project, in particular, because we've heard about that, and certainly the results will be telling.

If we were to move to closed containment systems in that region, maybe you could give us some perspective on private land, crown land, and first nation land, and whether that would not be an issue or whether that would be an inhibitor to the successful development of closed containment systems locally.