Fisheries Committee on Nov. 8th, 2012

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

In terms of the engagement, the best practices; you've had some good experiences, I'm guessing, but we'd like you to comment on them, whether it's with DFO officials....

Mr. Toone puts his emphasis there, which is arguable. I like what Mr. Sopuck said as well, that an MP's role is to engage. I've certainly been doing that in the riding of West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky with stakeholders.

What do you see that we should be doing, going forward?

[Bill Taylor]

I think we need more of it, whether it's with the federal officials, DFO officials, MPs, or provincial governments. We all have a stake. We all have a role to play in the protection of our wild fisheries and fish habitat.

I gave just a few examples of certain engagements and partnerships that we have had that have been productive, and we look for more opportunities in the future.

One example that DFO has given with the amendments is the expansion of partnerships. We have no idea what that will look like. It would be great to have some direction from DFO, whether it's a paper or a powerpoint or whatever, when they speak about enhanced partnerships: what does that look like, and what does that mean?

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

What would you like that to mean—

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Weston. Your time is up.

Mr. MacAulay.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Taylor, looking at the obstruction of the passage of the salmon, could they be, in your opinion...? I'd just like to have your view, possibly looking at Bill C-45 and Bill C-38, on whether they have made any changes that will help the situation. Do you think that it could obstruct fish from the feeding grounds or spawning grounds?

I'd like you to comment on the minister's authority to allow fish to be killed. Do you see any time or any reason that this should happen? If so, I'd like you to explain to the committee how you think the minister would have that authority. He has the authority, but what would be a good enough reason to allow these types of things to happen?

Also, if you have some recommendations to expand upon, go straight ahead. I expect you have a lot.

[Bill Taylor]

But I don't have a lot of time.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

That's right.

[Bill Taylor]

Speaking to the minister's authority, to when is an appropriate time to kill fish, I don't know what that would be.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

But it's there.

[Bill Taylor]

But it's there. And I can't give you an example of what would be an appropriate opportunity, so that is deeply concerning.

With respect to obstruction of fish passage, I can't speak to all fish on the east coast of Canada, but I can with respect to Atlantic salmon. They are an anadromous fish, meaning they go from our freshwater rivers to the ocean and back again to spawn. Atlantic salmon need to have free passage and access to the spawning beds in the headwaters and the juvenile rearing areas, and safe passage out to the sea and back again.

On the east coast of Canada, I cannot give you an example of where an obstruction in a river, such as a dam, has led to an increase in salmon production or fish production.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Or a decrease?

[Bill Taylor]

There is always a decrease when it comes to wild Atlantic salmon. There are examples where fish biomass increases, and certainly in the St. John River, one of the great salmon rivers of the world just 30 or 40 years ago, the salmon are virtually gone. There is a huge enhancement program, a hatchery on the St. John that DFO operates, and we still have very poor returns of Atlantic salmon, despite a multi-million dollar hatchery program.

We now have all kinds of pickerel, pike, and smallmouth bass. That's great if you're a smallmouth bass fisherman. The problem is that nature did not intend the smallmouth bass, the pike, and the pickerel to be in the St. John River. That is an Atlantic salmon river and a brook trout river. The wild native species are going down the tube at the expense of a fish obstruction. There is an increase in fish biomass, but not wild native fish.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. MacAulay.

[Philip Toone, NDP, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

I'd like to move...[Inaudible--Editor]

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Did I...? Mr. Toone, I'm going to thank our witnesses at this time, because I know Mr. Taylor has a flight to catch.

To our witnesses, I want to thank you for coming today and for appearing before this committee and providing us with your thoughts on Bill C-45, clauses 173 to 178. We certainly do appreciate it. Again, on such short notice, we do appreciate your time.

Mr. Toone, I told you I would come back to you and give you the opportunity to propose a motion, so the floor is yours now.

[Philip Toone, NDP, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Thank you so much—

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Yes.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

If it's committee business-related, I move that we go in camera.

[Philip Toone, NDP, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

This follows the testimony of the witnesses. I think it would be interesting for the public to hear it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

You're moving, Mr. Kamp, to go in camera?

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Correct.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

It has been moved by Mr. Kamp that the committee move in camera.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Can we have a recorded vote, Mr. Chairman, please?