Fisheries Committee on March 5th, 2013

[David Bevan]

I think the salmonid enhancement program on the west coast was designed with that context in mind. There's mixed stock fishing by recreational fishers. There was a desire to try and provide more opportunity. That's a program that's been fine-tuned over the years. It is an area where we have jurisdiction. It's a saltwater fishery and an in-river fishery, but we have the jurisdiction to manage those.

I think it's a different context when you look at the recreational fishery in the interior of the country that's managed by the provinces. You have numerous lakes. Where would you enhance and what kind of enhancement would you be considering? It would have to be worked out with provincial jurisdictions.

Perhaps there are better ways of approaching the recreational fishery, which is thriving in those jurisdictions at any rate. There's a different history around the west coast salmonid enhancement program.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

I understand that, but I can assure you that as a former regional fisheries biologist myself, a federal role in fisheries enhancement and helping fisheries productivity improve would be very welcome, because there are recreational fisheries in inland Canada that are in difficulty and could use some support.

Under the new Fisheries Act, there is a clear provision to allow for partnerships with conservation groups. One partnership which I think is a model that could be replicated across the country is the one...apparently there's a partnership between DFO and the Atlantic Salmon Federation to work to enhance Atlantic salmon stocks. There has been some very great successes there.

Minister, can you talk about that particular activity of the department?

[Keith Ashfield, Conservative, Fredericton, NB]

I forget which year, but there was a fund made available to the Atlantic Salmon Federation, I believe it was, and the Pacific equivalent, for x number of dollars. From the interest garnered from those accounts they are to do enhancement work. It's been very successful in Atlantic Canada, although they would suggest that they would like to have more funds made available to do more important work as well. Overall, it has worked very well. They have had a lot of significant projects in Atlantic Canada with a lot of groups.

It leverages money too, which is important. It's not all their money. They leverage money, and that allows them to make larger investments than they would normally make if they were just using their own dollars and cents.

It's a very successful program.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Similarly, the Atlantic salmon introduction to Lake Ontario, which is an inland fishery, which I think your department participated in, is an example where you do have the capability to work in the inland waters. I would recommend, Minister, that you ask your officials to start looking for opportunities there. Again, the Hunting and Angling Advisory Panel, which the Prime Minister himself announced, would be an ideal sounding board for this particular activity.

Going back to the habitat protection provisions, I understand that now under the new Fisheries Act, guidelines can be issued for certain project activities by waterways, such as the design of road crossings and so on to allow for fish passages. Am I correct in that?

[Keith Ashfield, Conservative, Fredericton, NB]

Yes, you're absolutely correct in that.

We're focusing more on larger projects that would have major impacts on a recreational, commercial, and aboriginal fishery, with less focus on some of the smaller types of projects that we talked about last year—farmers, ditches, and so on and so forth.

So yes, you're absolutely correct.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much.

Mr. MacAulay.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Mr. Minister, and your fleet of advisers. We're pleased to have them.

I would just note that in terms of consultations, particularly when the changes came to the Fisheries Act, it was awful difficult for me to find anybody in Prince Edward Island who was consulted with. The only thing I would suggest to you, if you're going to have consultations, is that they be open consultations, and fishermen be able to attend those meetings.

But I would like to ask you this. Are you fully committed, and is the government fully committed, to preserving the owner-operator fleet separation policy as it is today? Do you intend to eliminate the controlling agreements in 2014, and do you intend to grandfather the people who are involved?

[Keith Ashfield, Conservative, Fredericton, NB]

On owner-operator and fleet ownership, I think I have been pretty clear that we're not going to touch that. That was not the intention of my so-called open consultation, which became much more than open. A few people chose their own avenue of attack—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

We were pleased.

[Keith Ashfield, Conservative, Fredericton, NB]

—and I would suggest, or I know, that a few might be right around this table.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Keith Ashfield, Conservative, Fredericton, NB]

In any case, it never was the focus of my open consultation. I think I have made it quite clear that I have no intention of moving in that direction.

In terms of PIIFCAF, those arrangements are due to expire in 2014. We haven't made any kind of determination, at this point, on whether or not we'll grandfather those who are still involved, or who were originally involved, into the program.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

In terms of the controlling agreements, would you agree or would you disagree that this is a way for people, other than people who own and operate the boats, to receive the benefit of a fleet that's fishing?

[Keith Ashfield, Conservative, Fredericton, NB]

Yes, I guess, if you look at it hypothetically or not.... Well, even—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

No, directly.

[Keith Ashfield, Conservative, Fredericton, NB]

Directly, you would be.... Yes, it could very much result in that.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

That's my concern, Mr. Minister.

Also, coming from Prince Edward Island, I know that we have a fairly large lobster industry. It's worth somewhere close to $54 million or $55 million. That's the canner lobster industry. It's directly related to the carapace size. Of course, there is an agreement that it goes up to 72 millimetres this year, but you also realize that there's pressure to put that size up substantially.

I just ask you if the people involved in this industry, which is an important industry for our province.... If the price of lobster were where it should be, it would probably be closer to a $75-million industry, and the demand for protein around the world is increasing all the time.

Can you put to rest the fears of a number of our fishermen and people involved in the industry that it will remain at 72 millimetres for the fishermen in Prince Edward Island?

[Keith Ashfield, Conservative, Fredericton, NB]

As you know, there have been ongoing discussions. I have met with the fisheries minister from P.E.I. and officials. I have also met with the official opposition, as a matter of fact, from P.E.I., and with the New Brunswick fisheries minister and the MFU, the fishermen's union, on this particular issue.

Of course, on the New Brunswick side they're interested in moving the carapace size up. P.E.I. wants it left at no more than the 72 millimetres that is coming into play this year. I understand their position quite well. They've developed a niche market for that product, and it is a fairly lucrative market.

There are ongoing discussions on both sides. There has been no conclusion on what is going to happen at this point. I'll wait for them to provide me with some solutions to their problem.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Okay, Mr. Minister.

A few years ago this committee wrote a report that recommended that your department provide assistance to lobster fishermen to reduce their costs. Atlantic lobster sustainability measures have now been cut, going from $7.8 million to $4.8 million. Can you give us more information on this reduction? Basically, is this part of the fishery a priority for your government?

You understand that there are increasing costs in every sector involved in the fishery, and to have this loss is not good for the fishery.

[Keith Ashfield, Conservative, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you.

Overall we have invested a fair bit of money, as you know, in licence buybacks, etc. for the lobster industry and we have reduced the licences considerably. It was by over 500, if I recall correctly, so there are fewer people in the business, which is probably a good thing. In terms of the overall industry, rationalization is positive in that industry.

As for the nuts and bolts, I'd ask Roch to take a spin at that.

[Roch Huppé]

The initial investment in what we call the long-term lobster sustainability program was $55 million over five years, so again, from a cash-out perspective, we ramped up toward the middle. We're in the last few years, 2013-14 being the last year, so indeed the earmarked funding to transition out of the program for next year is close to $5 million, and it was about $8 million for 2012-13. That's why there is a variance of $3 million. We're in the phasing out stage of that program.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

The fact is, there's a loss to the program, but also I want to thank you, Mr. Minister, for the rationalization program. I fully agree with that and I think it's proved its worth on the south side of Prince Edward Island in particular.

Also, you indicated that in the Cohen report there were about 75 recommendations involving DFO. I'm just looking for some advice from you here.

Yes, you are the minister.

Looking at the situation, and the importance, and the dollars spent on the Cohen report, do you feel that Justice Cohen should at least be brought before this committee? We're just asking for direction. I know the committee decides what it does and what it does not do, but understanding the dollars that have been spent, do you not feel that this information should be brought to this committee?

[Keith Ashfield, Conservative, Fredericton, NB]

As you indicated, Mr. MacAulay.... I don't want to be in conflict with my senior, but it is the committee's business to decide what it wants to do and who it wants to call before the committee, and I would never suggest that I would interfere in that process.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much for such straight advice. I appreciate it very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much.

We're going to move to a two-minute round now.

I would ask members to please keep their questions very pointed so we can have as many questions and answers as possible.

Go ahead, Mr. Donnelly.