Evidence of meeting #80 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nunavut.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
They still use the kite system for fishing, don't they?
Senator, CPC, Senate
Just to let you know that it was an opportunity to do something in the north in relation to small craft harbours. It was the first of its kind, and the cost was increased due to the fact, I guess, of the learning process with permafrost as they went forward. They had a lot of issues with supplies, the ice, and so on, but the job is complete, and it's going to be open this summer.
The people in Pangnirtung, from my understanding, are absolutely delighted that they have a safe and accessible wharf.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
When we were up there back in 2002, we knew there was a lot of tension between the Nunavut Wildlife Management Board and the Baffin Fisheries Coalition. Mr. Ben Kovic happened to be a member of both. You talk about sort of greasing the wheel on both sides of the thing. That happened and it was a very serious concern.
Senator Patterson, I'd like to know how that relationship is now, how that has improved and if they are working together for the betterment of all the fishermen up there. That's my first question.
My second question goes back to you, Senator Manning. You talked in your committee about the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation, which is a single-desk seller for fish.
As you know, Saskatchewan has either pulled out or they're about to pull out of that system. I believe Alberta already has pulled out. I find it rather ironic that when the Wheat Board discussions came up, there was great opposition from our Conservative counterparts regarding single-desk selling of wheat. They were opposed to it and believed that farmers should have the opportunity to sell their wheat to whomever they wish.
I'm quite curious as to why as a Conservative senator you would not have recommended the same. Why wouldn't you recommend the destruction of the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation—which I personally don't think is one of the finest organizations on the planet, and I'm putting it mildly—and allow fishermen, especially northern fishermen and aboriginal people, to sell their fish to whomever they wish, very similar to what Ontario does?
Senator, CPC, Senate
Again, I'll answer my part first, if I could. In regard to the Wheat Board, we were inundated with representations from the farmers in the area wanting to get rid of the Wheat Board, wanting to do away with it. I know there were other people who didn't want to do that, but we had an immense number of people coming forward who wanted to.
In regard to the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation in the north, there was a local vote taken from the fishermen. Senator Patterson may be even more aware of this than I am. They had a two to one majority of those who wanted to keep it.
Certainly, while we may believe one thing or the other, the fact is that the local message is we don't think we should be interfering with the wishes of those people in the north. They had an opportunity to have a democratic vote, which they did. It was two to one or more in relation to keeping the board. In regards to the Wheat Board, it was totally the other way around, in our view.
Senator, CPC, Senate
I could add, Mr. Chair, that I checked on this anticipating a question. I am informed that the Government of the Northwest Territories—and the NWT is the main customer of the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation from Great Slave Lake—after the December 9, 2010 vote of the fishers—and there were not a lot; it was seventeen to nine as Senator Manning has said—to remain with the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation, the responsible minister in the Northwest Territories, the Hon. Robert McLeod, said that they would respect the vote of the fishermen and that the Government of the Northwest Territories would not repeal the NWT Freshwater Fish Marketing Act to withdraw from the federal marketing system.
I'll answer the other question that Mr. Stoffer asked. Yes, indeed, you're very well informed. There were tensions between the Baffin Fisheries Coalition and a group that had broken away from Qikiqtarjuaq, Pangnirtung, and Pond Inlet, I believe. That was then.
Now both groups are with the benefit of access to quota and support from DFO to allow them to develop joint venture arrangements that give them cash to acquire vessels. Both organizations have acquired their own vessels. It seems there's enough resource now to allow them both to thrive. I don't think that was the case when you were there. The fishery has grown and the rivalries are healthy now, I would say.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
Thank you. I have a last question for you.
A few years ago when Senator Willie Adams was here, he and I went up there together, and we had major discussions in Grise Fiord, Resolute Bay, and Arctic Bay, etc., regarding the concerns on marine service fees. As you know, the higher the ships go up, the more the fees cost.
It is a credit to Mr. Flaherty at that time that after two requests he actually reduced those fees for a certain number of years. Again, I can't recall how many years that freeze is on for. Are you aware of any further discussions to ensure that the fee structures for marine service fees for all the goods and supplies that go up to those far northern communities stay reduced, or will they unfortunately be subject to what is called the market system? As you know, sir, when you go to Arctic Bay and you see 1.6 litres of grape juice at $32 a bottle, you kind of think, “What the hell...?” Wait until it turns into wine, and then it'll be all right, but....
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
Are the marine service fees being looked at by your committee and by the government in terms of ensuring there's an adequate cost structure so the people can afford the goods and services they require to live in those extremely isolated communities?
Senator, CPC, Senate
Mr. Chair, I very much appreciate the question.
It is very expensive to deliver anything to the Arctic, whether by ship or by air, although by ship is to be preferred, and I believe our government should provide incentives for people to use lower cost shipping instead of higher cost air.
As for what has happened with the service fee of the coast guard through DFO, I'm told that it's under review by the department but they have extended the moratorium on charging that northern marine service fee for the past two years pending this review. We are generally pleased that the boom hasn't fallen yet, although we do understand that DFO is looking for revenue opportunities. We just strongly believe, because of the fragility of the fishery and the high costs, that the north should be exempted, because it's already terribly expensive.
One other minor point I'll mention is that although we're grateful for the moratorium, there is a concern that there was an arbitrary line drawn south of 60, so a couple of communities like Sanikiluaq, where vessels have to transverse the Arctic Circle but then go to a southern destination below 60, have not been exempted from the fee increase. We don't think the moratorium was quite fairly applied in the last year, and I've written to the minister about that.
We are grateful that overall the moratorium has been continued for the last two years, but it will have to be addressed, and we hope that it's going to be permanently eliminated.
Thank you very much for the question.
Conservative
John Weston Conservative West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Thank you.
It's always interesting to follow on the heels of the shy and retiring Mr. Stoffer—
Conservative
John Weston Conservative West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
—and it's great to have you back. It's an amazing wealth of experience and information that we have here today.
The study that we contemplate will engage substantial resources, potentially, in terms of taxpayers' money if we visit places in the north, and we want to make sure that what we do is effective, so I have two process-related questions.
You've done two studies. Both of you have been thoroughly involved, and I'm sure your levels of jubilation and frustration come from that. Do you have any recommendations for us in terms of how to structure our study so that our recommendations will bear fruit and won't end up gathering dust somewhere, recommendations in terms of who we engage along the way or what we should focus on?
In a related vein, I wonder if each of you could suggest a couple of priorities that you think should receive our focus. Our biggest problem certainly is not finding issues to explore, and I think the greatest threat to the effectiveness of what we do here is that perhaps a lack of focus will dilute the ultimate effectiveness.
Senator, CPC, Senate
I'll start, if I may.
As I mentioned in my opening remarks, the Arctic has its challenges and none greater than the geography. I would suggest, from the work we have done, that you narrow your focus. You could spend forever studying the Arctic and all the different aspects of it, but I think you need to prioritize what you want to do, set a goal of three or four different items you would like to do some work on, and then focus on those knowing there is always the possibility to do another study, if required, from what you do.
We tried our best to focus as much as we could on a couple of important items. Certainly, if I were to give any advice I would pass along—and Senator Patterson can make his own comments—it would be in relation to not being all over the globe, literally, in the Arctic, but to focus on some of the concerns that are there.
A couple of the recommendations we would like to see followed up on are to do with climate change and the concerns with the melting ice in the Arctic. There has been and will be increased marine activity there, whether it's cruise ships, whether it's other countries, whether it's research vessels, whatever the case may be. I think you would need to look at how much of that is happening now, the effect it is having on the Arctic, the effect it's having on the fisheries that are in place there now, and the effect it's having on communities that are depending on the natural resources that are there. Certainly research it.
There has been and continues to be a fair amount of research on the north, on different aspects of it. It might be an idea to zero in again on a couple of important parts of the research that's been ongoing, to delve in to see if there are enough financial resources being put into the research. Is it goal oriented or is it just plain research, and what are the results of some of the research that has been done already?
Certainly foremost, from reading the reports and listening to the people from the north, is that whatever happens in the Arctic, the people there want to have a say. I think that finding a mechanism to allow them to express their concerns and express their suggestions on how to go forward is something your committee certainly needs to work at because these people live there. They know the challenges that are there, but I truly believe they're seeing the opportunities that are there also.
Conservative
John Weston Conservative West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
That is a really interesting answer, but let me interrupt before you respond, Senator Patterson.
In the budget there is $10 million for partnerships, which is designed to leverage the local communities around the country. Do you see any role there? Do you think we should be exploring how those partnerships may become alive?
Senator, CPC, Senate
Yes, I do, and maybe Senator Patterson can acknowledge that.
Senator, CPC, Senate
Mr. Chair, I'd like to thank the member for that question.
We all know the aboriginal fishery can be a source of tension in parts of the country. I don't want to comment on that. What we have in Nunavut, as I said in my presentation, is we have the Inuit involved in managing the resource through co-management boards, which they have guaranteed representation on. They take ownership of the decisions and they are committed to the conservation and sustainable principles.
I believe Nunavut is an excellent place for your committee to explore the potential for collaboration with the aboriginal community because it's working. DFO and the Inuit go to CITES together, with a management plan for narwhal, to show the world we are managing narwhal responsibly. It is harvested but it is within reasonable limits. This kind of collaboration does not always happen with the department in other parts of the country.
I would recommend that focus. Look at the management regime of aboriginal collaboration, engage with the Inuit. I recommend you invite NTI, Nunavut Tunngavik Inc.,to come here. Ask them what they think you should see.
I agree with Senator Manning that climate change is something that is new and providing concerns but also benefits to the northern fishery.
Finally, the committee takes some credit for recommending the first small craft harbour in the north, in Pangnirtung. You should go and see it. You should take a look. I think with targeted travel you can visit typical communities in Nunavut, and also in the NWT, where there's a great potential fishery at Great Slave Lake. Without having to go everywhere, you can target places where our fishery is most advanced.
Conservative
John Weston Conservative West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Maybe someone will take this up. I was going to ask what distinguishes between the two categories.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rodney Weston
I'm sorry, it's a good try. Thank you very much.
Mr. MacAulay, the floor is yours.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I welcome the two senators to the committee.
Senator Patterson, I certainly like your tie and vest, and I firmly believe we need a lot more of those ties and vests on the market.
Liberal
Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE
Very good, I hope there's some heavy demand for your product.
Senator Manning, we go back a little way. A good friend you are, and I'm very pleased to see you here.