Fisheries Committee on Feb. 12th, 2014

[Patrick McGuinness]

As I said, that's very difficult. My sector, of course, is the wild fishery. I think we do see increased employment in our cooked and peeled shrimp right throughout Newfoundland and Labrador, New Brunswick, and Quebec. We do see the lobster processing sector expanding in P.E.I. and New Brunswick.

The difficulty in projecting job increases is the fact that, as I say, in wild fisheries we very much have the umbrella of nature. We can't simply produce more widgets. We're still going to be working with probably the same amount of quotas. The only thing you can do in terms of jobs is value-added. We do see considerable opportunity for value-added, particularly going into the EU market, which is a sophisticated market in terms of people wanting to eat fish and seafood, in terms of very readily cookable, and things of that nature. We see that happening mainly.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

As well as increasing the number of jobs, maybe it's securing the jobs, you could say.

[Patrick McGuinness]

Yes. This is what we see. The thing is that we do see job improvements. Those job improvements to a large extent mean investing in innovation, doing things differently, modified atmosphere of packaging, focusing more on the EU marketplace as opposed to....

For example, in terms of our shell-on shrimp, we're very big in China. We're delivering a lot of that right into the Chinese wet markets. That tariff rate is 12% in the EU, so we'd be shifting more into the EU, but it wouldn't be going to the wet markets; it would be going to a higher product.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Given the success here, and the capacity that we built just in our ability to negotiate all these preceding agreements and now CETA, we read in the papers last week that we might be on the verge of having an agreement with Korea. We're also trying to negotiate a TPP, a Trans-Pacific Partnership, and there are free trade discussions going on with India and Japan. Do you regard CETA as a good template that could be used in some of these other agreements?

[Patrick McGuinness]

Most definitely. We're very, very anxious to get the deal done in South Korea. Canada is about the 10th largest economy in the world, Korea is number 14, and they love fish and eat fish. We have to get that done just in terms of staying even with the Americans.

The TPP is really good for us in terms of Japan now being a participant, and also Vietnam. These are good markets. Even though we're going to be doing a bilateral with Japan, Japan was going to be difficult in terms of the fisheries on a number of issues. I see being in the TPP, and the pressure behind that to get that done and Japan wanting to be part of it, is going to be very beneficial for the fish and seafood industry.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Let's go back to the minimum processing requirements. I'm going to quote what Steve Verheul, the chief negotiator, said when he was asked about this. He said there were two justifications for it. He said:

Well, there has been some concern expressed in various places that the removal of minimum processing requirements on exports to the EU might have some impact, and some, I'm convinced, probably believe that. I think that was part of the justification.

The other justification is that if we're going to take full advantage of this new access into the EU, we need to be prepared, well positioned, to do that, particularly if we're going to go into the retail market, which we haven't done to a great extent so far.

So it's more about restructuring the industry, positioning it to compete in the European market.

Do you want to comment on that explanation?

[Patrick McGuinness]

That's excellent. He's obviously a very talented person, and he's proved that in terms of negotiating an excellent arrangement.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Great. Thank you.

I'm going to split my time with my colleague Mr. Sopuck.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Mr. Sopuck, you have four and a half minutes.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Good.

I heard you say something interesting. Actually, everything you said was interesting, but one thing in particular stood out for me. I think you said that our fish stocks are well managed. Did I hear that correctly?

[Patrick McGuinness]

Yes.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Good.

What do you attribute that good management to? What are we doing right to ensure the sustainability of our fish stocks?

[Patrick McGuinness]

It's a good question.

About six years ago 12 international biologists, scientists, studied 56 countries to see how well they were implementing their fisheries management regime with respect to the FAO code of conduct for responsible fisheries. Only six countries actually passed and got good marks. One of them was Canada.

To some extent what they're doing is actually adhering to the requirements of the FAO in terms of responsible fisheries management. There are also significant investments in DFO, in terms of its fisheries management regime, its monitoring and enforcement. It's a world-class fisheries management regime. It was rated number three.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

That situation exists today, the good management of fish stocks.

[Patrick McGuinness]

Yes.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Okay. I appreciate somebody who's directly in the industry depending on wild fish stocks making that kind of statement, given some of the things we hear from the other side. I'm gratified, as a fisheries biologist myself to have it confirmed yet again that Canada's fish stocks are well managed by DFO.

I come from inland Canada, Manitoba in particular. I was interested in your reference to Lake Winnipeg. I have commercial fishermen in my own constituency. I know that the freshwater commercial fishery is quite small, but I heard you mention walleye, and so on.

What more opportunities do you see for freshwater fish exports? I think your comment about Lake Winnipeg not being able to produce any more fish is very well taken, so it's on the value-added side. In the area of the so-called off-quota species, sometimes called rough fish, like mullet, carp, and so on, do we see any opportunities for those off-quota species?

[Patrick McGuinness]

It's difficult. The bottom line with the marketplace is that Europe wants the walleye and the pickerel. Perhaps in terms of putting together imaginative packages there could be an opportunity to develop better markets for those type of products, but as you know, it has proved difficult.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

There used to be a fairly lucrative market in pike, three- to nine-pound pike in France. Is that market still going? Are you aware of that?

[Patrick McGuinness]

I believe so. Yes.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Okay. Your point about the sophistication of the Europeans is well taken because they have to be very exact with really red gills and the whole thing, shipped over fresh.

[Patrick McGuinness]

Actually—what do you call it—the Lake Geneva walleye or whatever, what has happened is that over time that stock has been pretty well decimated and, of course, now it's being supplied out of Canada. In restaurants it's still called Lake Geneva.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Interesting, and that's fish from Canada called Lake Geneva. Okay.

Getting back to the issue of sustainability of fish stocks, looking long term—because in your business you have to look long term, 20 or 25 years—are the fish stocks able to sustain the pressure they're under now, assuming we keep our management regimes in place? I know you have a watchful eye on fish stocks all the time, but are you confident going decades out that we'll still be in good shape?

[Patrick McGuinness]

If we're diligent. The bottom line is that the stocks are being assessed; their biomass is being assessed, along with the amount of take, the size, the ages. As you know from a biological point of view, you can make these types of modellings. So far with those types of modellings, if you perform appropriately, you should be able to have a sustainable stock with the natural fluctuations. That's all we're aiming for.

Generally, you always get side-swiped. There are a number of issues out there that are concerning, such as climate changes, acidification of the oceans, and things of that nature, but if it's relatively static from nature, I think that fisheries management can do a fairly good job of maintaining the sustainability.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Excellent. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much, Mr. Sopuck.

Mr. McGuinness, on behalf of the committee I'd like to thank you for coming in today and appearing before our committee. We certainly do appreciate your point of view and your taking the time to answer committee members' questions. Thank you very much.