Fisheries Committee on Feb. 24th, 2015

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

I call this meeting to order.

Mr. MacAulay, you've asked to have the floor.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to bring a motion to the floor:

That, given the potential consequences of the government's proposed Aquaculture Activity Regulations, the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans undertake a study on what effects these regulatory changes will have on Canada's oceans, fish habitat, and marine and coastal environments, and call witnesses including the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, senior departmental officials, and interested stakeholder groups to testify before the Committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you.

On November 24, 2014 notice was given. It has been moved by Mr. MacAulay:

That given the potential consequences of the government's proposed Aquaculture Activity Regulations, the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans undertake a study on what effects these regulatory changes will have on Canada's oceans, fish habitat, and marine and coastal environments, and call witnesses including the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, senior departmental officials, and interested stakeholder groups to testify before the Committee.

Mr. MacAulay.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Mr. Chair, a large number of people who are concerned about these changes have written to me and to the Prime Minister, so I think it is important that these people have a hearing to indicate their concerns. It's important that everybody understand, to the best we can resolve, what effect they will have on the fisheries environment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. MacAulay. Sorry, I was just conferring with my—

[A voice]

He wasn't saying anything anyway.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Yes, I know.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

I did notice you stopped talking.

Mr. Kamp.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Following our usual practice with committee business, I move that we go in camera.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

It has been moved by Mr. Kamp that this committee move in camera.

(Motion agreed to)

The motion is carried. We'll suspend for a few moments until the committee moves in camera.

[Proceedings continue in camera]

[Public proceedings resume]

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

We'll call this meeting back to order.

Before we get started, Monsieur Lapointe, I believe you wanted to provide notice of motion.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I would like to put forward a motion that reads as follows:

That the Committee hold at least one meeting as soon as possible to study the impact of listing the Atlantic Sturgeon under the Species at Risk Act (St. Lawrence populations) and that the Committee make recommendations regarding the possible ecological, cultural and economic impact of listing these populations under the Species at Risk Act, in accordance with the Fisheries and Oceans consultations ending on February 27, 2015, and that the Committee report its findings and recommendations to the House at the first opportunity.

The reason we would like the committee to look into this situation urgently is because the Committee on the Status of Endangered Wildlife in Canada, COSEWIC, recommended in 2011 that the species be declared endangered.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Today you just provided notice of motion. When you move the motion, I'll let you get into the—

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

It's not a problem. I simply wanted to explain why it was urgent.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

I appreciate that. Yes, I'll give you the opportunity to get in the rest at that time. Thank you.

Notice of motion has been provided by Monsieur Lapointe. We will now move on to our business at hand.

I want to thank the department officials for joining us today to discuss our study on recreational fisheries.

Mr. Stringer, I know you're no stranger to this committee and I certainly appreciate you and your colleagues appearing today. I'll let you introduce your colleagues as you make your opening remarks.

[Kevin Stringer, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Ecosystems and Fisheries Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Merci. Thank you very much.

It is a pleasure for us to be here to provide some background on recreational fisheries in Canada. We understand that you're interested in that issue and looking at doing a study on it. We'll speak to it, as well as to the role that Fisheries and Oceans Canada plays in the management of recreational fisheries.

Permit me to introduce my colleagues who are witnesses with me today. Melinda Lontoc-Roy is the policy and program advisor in the fisheries protection program. She's responsible for delivering the recreational fisheries conservation program.

Andrew McMaster is a senior fisheries officer. He's in fisheries resource management and has a lead responsibility here in Ottawa for recreational fisheries.

Alain Vézina is acting director general for our science sector, our ecosystems and oceans science.

Recreational fisheries hold significant value to Canada. Our department conducted a national survey on recreational fishing in Canada. The survey takes place every five years through collaboration between federal, provincial and territorial governments. The most recent survey was in 2010, and it shows that almost 3.3 million people—or almost one in very 10 Canadians—fished recreationally in Canada in 2010, spending over $8 billion related to their recreational fishing activities. This includes over 400,000 foreign anglers, who come from all over the world to enjoy the experience of recreational fishing in Canada.

Recreational fishing takes place in every province and territory, and plays a key socio-economic role in many communities. A number of studies address the value of recreational fishing. For example, an economic impact study commissioned by the Quebec Atlantic Salmon Federation showed that the value of just that one species is over $250 million, with anglers spending over $125 million annually.

And Atlantic salmon fishing activities supports almost 4,000 full-time equivalent jobs in 2010.

It's important to highlight that federal, provincial, and territorial jurisdictions all have responsibilities for managing recreational fisheries in Canada.

While managing fishing activity, including recreational fishing, falls under federal jurisdiction, legislation, and regulations, the provinces and territories effectively manage most inland and freshwater fisheries. They control access in their waters through licensing regimes, and in many cases have the responsibility to manage inland fisheries through informal or formal agreements with Fisheries and Oceans Canada.

While there is a significant marine recreational fishery in Canada, it really is these inland freshwater fisheries that have the most significant activity. The 2010 survey that I mentioned showed that the most caught species nationally was walleye, followed by trout, perch, bass, and pike. Marine species, such as salmon, halibut, etc., were further down the list.

While provinces and territories effectively manage the freshwater fisheries for the most part, the federal government manages marine or tidal fisheries. We also manage fisheries, such as salmon, that are found in both marine and freshwater environments, though in those cases the provinces issue the licences.

A unique arrangement exists in a couple of areas. In Quebec, for example, the Government of Quebec has the authority for managing recreational fishing in both inland and tidal waters. In Newfoundland, it's different again. It's basically all federally managed, both freshwater and marine, though the province issues licences.

With all of these jurisdictional issues, we need effective cooperation. We seek and do manage to have effective cooperation among all relevant jurisdictions to ensure that our natural resources are properly managed.

Our department and other governments apply a broad range of tools to manage recreational fisheries to ensure their sustainability. ln most recreational fisheries, licences are required to permit any recreational fishing activity. There are exceptions to this, including many of the marine species in Atlantic Canada and many of the shellfish recreational harvests. As with commercial fisheries, recreational fisheries have many other types of management measures to control how, where, and when fishing takes place. These include a fishing season, catch-and-release requirements, daily or seasonal catch and retention limits, tags, size restrictions, gear restrictions, etc. We apply these based on the conservation requirements of the various fisheries, and we seek to work with fisheries groups in terms of what requirements are appropriate and how to apply them.

I'll give you a couple of examples. The ling cod fishery in some areas off B.C. limits to 10 fish per season, with a minimum length of 65 cm. The recreational striped bass fishery in New Brunswick limits anglers to retaining and possessing only one fish per day during limited retention periods. It requires fishers to use a single non-offset barbless hook when using bait and restricts retention only to fish between 55 cm and 65 cm in length.

The recreational groundfish in Newfoundland and Labrador is restricted to two specific fishery seasons, which allow a total of 32 days of fishing. There is a limit of five per day. Retention of Atlantic halibut, wolffish, and sharks is prohibited. There are gear restrictions, such as the number of hooks, and the list goes on in terms of different rules for different fisheries.

Overall, however, it's an $8-billion activity. Recreational fishing makes an important contribution to Canada's economy.

Even though some of the trends—and I can speak to that if you wish—show that there are fewer people involved in recreational fishing than there were a generation ago, the recreational fishing community is passionate and active, and certainly engaged with our department.

Along with recreational groups and other governments, we are always looking for new opportunities, new potentials, and new partnerships.

Governments invest significantly in the science and management of recreational fisheries. It is quite difficult to tease out exactly how much we spend on recreational fishing. Stock assessments done for fish apply to and benefit both commercial and recreational fisheries. We maintain a regular program of stock assessment, for example relating to key recreational harvested fish species, which are also harvested commercially: Pacific salmon, halibut, groundfish, mackerel, sharks, tuna, shellfish, etc.

Our fisheries managers work closely with provinces, territories, and all stakeholders to implement the sustainable management measures. The department has recently begun to use social media, Twitter and other modes to reach anglers in new and innovative ways.

Our enforcement officers work hard to ensure compliance with the rules, which is a challenge in recreational fisheries, monitoring and enforcing harvest activities throughout the country.

The provincial and territorial governments also play an important role in enforcement. There is cross-designation for enforcement, which applies to recreational as well as to other fisheries.

In recent years, the department has also facilitated the development of new recreational fishing opportunities, such as the charter groundfish and tuna industries, striped bass derbies, and recreational tourism initiatives, such as lobster and crab charters. These opportunities provide important socio-economic benefits to several local communities in Atlantic Canada and Quebec.

Another important initiative is our partnerships with angling, watershed and conservation groups through the recreational fisheries conservation partnerships program. Launched in 2013, it manages the distribution of $25 million over three years to support the restoration of fisheries habitat through partnerships with local groups.

The program promotes multi-partner initiatives and supports projects led by recreational fishing and angling groups, as well as conservation organizations, aimed at improving Canada's recreational fisheries. These groups have established expertise and collaborative approaches in fisheries conservation, and are well-positioned to deliver habitat restoration projects that benefit recreational fisheries.

Program funding allows program recipients to take action to restore, rebuild, and rehabilitate compromised or threatened fisheries habitats in areas that are important to the sustainability and productivity of Canada's recreational fisheries.

We also work with groups across the country such as the Pacific Salmon Foundation and the Atlantic Salmon Conservation Foundation. We have the Pacific salmon conservation stamp program. All of that enables partnerships on both coasts.

Through our programs and through our consultative arrangements, the department has important relationships with many angling and recreational groups. This is particularly the case, I would say, on the west coast where we work very closely with the Sport Fishing Advisory Board. We also have important relationships with angling and conservation groups across the country, groups such as the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters, various provincial wings of the Canadian Wildlife Federation, and through our work on the fisheries protection program. The recreational fisheries conservation partnerships program has enabled us to broaden and deepen these relationships. One of the most active groups is on Atlantic salmon with the Atlantic Salmon Federation, but there are many other recreational and local conservation groups where we are all concerned about decreasing stocks, particularly in the southern ranges where Atlantic salmon occur.

It's for this reason that Minister Shea announced the creation of a ministerial advisory committee on Atlantic salmon on December 18, 2014. The intention of this committee is to combine the knowledge of individuals with recognized expertise on Atlantic salmon and provide recommendations to the minister on prioritizing conservation efforts in the near and medium term.

In addition to our work to further develop relationships with recreational groups, we know there are areas in which we can make improvements in how we manage these fisheries. Specifically, we are considering mechanisms to improve the data we collect on recreational harvest in tidal waters, the number of participants, the level of harvest, etc. New industry approaches are being developed on the west coast, for example, to improve education and awareness of the importance of effective catch reporting.

I mentioned earlier the survey of recreational fishing in Canada. We're currently coordinating the next version, the next iteration of this, for 2015. The results will be out in the latter half of 2016. It provides comprehensive information on our recreational fisheries across the country: federal, provincial, and territorial. It shows trends that are very interesting to look at year over year over year: the types of fish caught, the average age, the gender of fishermen, the expenditures that are spent, the fishing effort, and the different types of management measures in place.

In closing, I do want to reiterate the importance of the recreational fishery across the country. While much of our department's traditional focus has been on commercial fisheries—and we will continue to maintain that important focus for those who depend on the fishery for their livelihood—we know that the cultural and socioeconomic benefits from recreational fishing are important to Canada and to Canadians. They make an important contribution both to Canada's culture and to Canada's economy.

Recent financial and relationship investments by the department underline that importance. We'll continue to make those investments. We'll continue to work with our provincial and territorial regulatory partners to enable a vibrant and sustainable recreational fishery in Canada.

We're very pleased to take your questions on this important matter today.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much, Mr. Stringer. We certainly do appreciate your presentation.

We're going to start off with a 10-minute round. We'll go with Mr. Chisholm first.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I indicated, I'll be sharing my time with Mr. Cleary.

Thank you, Mr. Stringer. There's no doubt about the importance of the recreational fishery across the country.

I was interested in the establishment of the ministerial advisory committee on Atlantic salmon in December by the minister. The 2010 study of the economic benefit of the recreational fishery and the Atlantic salmon...where are those figures? A continued deterioration in the stocks throughout Atlantic Canada has been causing, frankly, some considerable concern.

I have to say that I was really disappointed with the decision that was taken last year, I believe a year ago last fall, to shut down—bulldoze, frankly—the Mersey Biodiversity centre, the facility in Liverpool that had been doing such important work on trying to determine what was going on with the Southern Uplands Atlantic salmon, and had been involved in some stocking, not only with Atlantic salmon but with whitefish.

I know the justification at that point was, we're consolidating and we'll do more of that work elsewhere. I'd like to hear your response, given the fact that clearly, the minister has finally recognized there are some serious problems with Atlantic salmon in the Maritimes and Atlantic Canada. Why was the decision taken? Would you not agree that was a decision that will undoubtedly have some impact on the future viability of the Southern Uplands Atlantic salmon?

[Kevin Stringer]

Thanks for the question. I'll start, but I'll ask Alain to add.

Just in terms of Atlantic salmon, as the member has pointed out, the advisory committee has been announced and is getting under way.

We are seeing significant reductions. We had a commercial fishery in this fishery previously, which was closed in 1998. The recreational fishery's enormously important for cultural but also economic reasons.

We do many things in our department to support salmon management. I could go through a litany of management measures we've taken. In fact, in some cases we've seen some encouraging signs.

The big challenge is in the southern ranges. In fact, if you look at the U.S. salmon fishery, it's just about gone. There's some view that the range is moving north, so many of our efforts...many of the areas are actually closed to fishing. In many of the areas there's catch and release, there are strict rules on it, etc. We are concerned. The last couple of years have been showing that we weren't seeing the positive signs we had been seeing, hence the committee.

We do much research. We do many things. One thing we do is live gene banking. We used to have three and now we have two facilities on the east coast for that. The three were consolidated into two. The Mersey facility was closed and its work has been largely transferred to the other two, Mactaquac and—I forgot the name of the other, but Alain will know it.

Alain, you may have more information.

[Alain Vézina, Acting Director General, Science, Ecosystems and Oceans Science, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

I just want to say that we did do this for consolidation, as you know. We consolidated the activities in Nova Scotia from Mersey and Coldbrook into Coldbrook only. We are able to deliver. We have experience. We've done it. We are able to deliver the program that DFO is mandated to deliver, in terms of the live gene banking, with one facility instead of two in Nova Scotia.

The only thing that was stopped was the captive breeding of Atlantic whitefish, but we have taken many other actions on the Atlantic whitefish front to ensure the recovery of that species.

Going back to Atlantic salmon, since the closure we have started a working group with stakeholders to examine and work with them on actions that can help with the support of these populations in the Southern Uplands. Even though we've made a decision, we have taken action since then to work with stakeholders and try to improve the situation with the Atlantic salmon population in Nova Scotia.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Chairman, let me just say that I don't want to get argumentative here and I appreciate the fact that there's a working group now with stakeholders looking at the Southern Uplands. But there was a year when local conservation groups and other groups that were concerned about the decision to dismantle the Mersey River Biodiversity Facility were frankly played along and their proposals not accepted by the department.

I've got to tell you, it feels a bit rich to me because I talked to a lot of them prior and they felt seriously burned that the department is now willing to consult with the stakeholders after they bulldozed down that important facility. There just seems to be such a contradiction in the actions and the words. That's what troubles me. It's not just in Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and in Newfoundland rivers. In the Gaspé it was a disastrous season last year.

Mr. Chairman, I said I'd try not to get overly argumentative. I thought I'd share that. Maybe that's another question for the minister. Maybe I'll let Mr. Cleary go on it. He's much more polite, sincere, and less argumentative than I am.

[Ryan Cleary, NDP, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Thanks, Robert.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for appearing before the committee.

I remember back in the early 1990s when John Crosbie shut down the northern cod fishery. He was asked a question at the time, whether or not there would be any restriction on Newfoundlanders and Labradorians being able to fish for their table. His answer was, “B'y, if the stocks ever got that low that you couldn't fish for your supper, she'd be gone, b'y.”

We're at the point now where there have been restrictions on recreational fisheries for a number of years and, as you pointed out, Mr. Stringer, in your opening, in Newfoundland and Labrador the fishery is restricted to two specific fishing seasons that allow for a total of 32 days of fishing. Now the minister was good enough last fall to extend the fishery because of inclement weather, and that was good because in certain cases lives have been endangered when people go out to fish when the weather is not fit.

I've got a question for you, right off the bat. The 32 days that you're allowed to fish for cod for your table—the recreational fishery in Newfoundland and Labrador—how do the 32 days compare to the Maritimes and the total number of days that you can fish there in a season?

The second question is, you also mentioned, Mr. Stringer, about a licence being required to permit any recreational fisheries activity, with the exception of course of Newfoundland and Labrador and the recreational cod fishery and some shellfish fisheries.

People are upset in Newfoundland and Labrador in that they're restricted from recreational cod fishing in Newfoundland and Labrador more so than in the Maritimes. Why not go back to a licence system whereby Newfoundlanders and Labradorians can fish over the course of a season and they're not restricted to two fishing times? That would cut down on health and safety concerns, again, going out in the water when it's not fit to go out on the water. Is the department looking at that or would the department look at that?

[Kevin Stringer]

I think there were two fundamental questions there.

One is, what's the comparison between what we do in groundfish cod specifically in Newfoundland and elsewhere, and the other is what we think about a recreational licence regime.

It is different in different regions and in different areas. It is largely dependent on the state of the stock and the number of people who we believe are fishing, and the impact that's going to have on the fishery.

In the maritimes region, which is what we used to call Scotia Fundy, but it's basically coastal Nova Scotia and southern New Brunswick, the season is much longer. The limit in terms of cod is 10 per day, or 5 per day depending on which particular area it's at. There are certain fish that you cannot retain so it is different, and it's different again in the gulf region. And there's not a licence required for any of the regions in Atlantic Canada or Quebec for cod. So the specific management regime is different, depending on the circumstances, the number of people fishing, and our concern is conservation.

I will speak particularly to the Newfoundland cod fishery, which is enormously important to the people. We do absolutely understand that and our objective is to ensure that there is an opportunity, but also that we get sustained growth in that fishery and in that fish coming back. Members will know that northern cod has been at a very low level, but we are seeing signs of recovery. We were at 2% about a decade ago, 2% of what we call the limit reference point. The limit reference point is the average of the eighties. So we are at 2% in northern cod of the average of the eighties. The last advice we got, the last formal advice, is that we're at about 18%. So we're not back to where we were, but we're nine times higher than where we were.

The challenge is, we have a stewardship fishery for the commercial fishers, and we have a recreational fishery. The challenge in Newfoundland and Labrador is people absolutely love to do it, and if you open it for a day they're going to catch a lot of fish, and hence we need to find some way to manage it so that 32 days is the limit. There are other limits and I spoke to them.

In terms of a licence, members will know—and certainly the member who asked the question will know—there used to be one, and we have from time to time established a recreational licence in Newfoundland and Labrador. We have licence regimes in some areas and not in others. We'll be interested to see the advice from this committee about what makes sense. It's not particularly popular with some of the recreational fishers to have a licence regime in place, and so we put them in place where we think there is real value, that it's going to help us understand what is caught, who is catching it, etc.

Anyway, I'll stop there, but it is an interesting question. I'd be prepared to answer it again, but I know I've talked for a while.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much, Mr. Stringer.

Thank you, Mr. Cleary.

Mr. Sopuck.