Fisheries Committee on March 31st, 2015

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

I had the pleasure this last August of visiting Vancouver Island and I fly-fished for some of your salmon. I was taken on a couple of tours by the Pacific Salmon Foundation of your habitat enhancement projects, primarily coho nursery areas and that Oyster River enhancement project. I met with the club there. Is that the kind of programming that you would like to see significantly expanded in B.C.?

[Owen Bird]

Absolutely. Not at the expense of some of the things that Gerry has mentioned, but yes absolutely, in part with these activities. I want to emphasize that from this strategy we hope to have more resources to dedicate to catch monitoring and ultimately to awareness for both DFO and anglers alike. Those would be the main objectives.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Regarding Mr. Farrant's comments about the recreational fisheries conservation partnerships program, I think Quebec, Ontario, and B.C. were the largest recipients of those funds and had the most projects. I found it extremely impressive.

Mr. Farrant, there's a lot of talk about the environment in the last little while, but only now are the anglers and hunters finally getting their due in terms of credit for their conservation activities. I'd like to think that our government is responsible in part because of the respect that we pay to this particular community. I'm chair of the Conservative hunting and angling caucus. It's the only one of its kind in any government.

Why is it in the past, Mr. Farrant, that the immense contributions to environmental conservation by the angling and hunting community have been so undervalued in light of the tremendous contributions that community has made?

[Greg Farrant]

Unfortunately those activities are generally in large part—and when I say this I mean by all political parties—undervalued in terms of seeing them as economic drivers.

The immense reach of fishing, hunting, and related industries across this country, from some of the figures I indicated during my speech, bring billions of dollars a year to this economy, yet they are marginalized quite often and seen as frivolous activities or activities undertaken by a small cadre of people. Well 7.5 million people fishing is not small. If you add hunting, fishing, trapping, and outfitting together it's $15.2 billion to the annual economy. That is not chump change, excuse the expression.

In particular in urban centres they're seen as peripheral activities that are engaged upon by people out there, but the fact is that in large part people who hunt and fish in this country live in urban centres.

Most people who moose hunt for instance in northern Ontario live south of the French River. They live in places like Toronto, London, Ottawa, and places like that. They're judges, lawyers, and politicians and they come from all walks of life. They live in a lot of large urban centres, but it's always identified as an out there rural type of activity and not taken seriously.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Right. I couldn't agree more.

Mr. Bird, the other fishery...you know there's the commercial, recreation, and of course there's the aboriginal fishery. I'm curious, are aboriginal people becoming engaged with the recreational fishery through investing in lodges, employees, and so on?

Are we seeing a greater participation by the aboriginal community in this activity?

[Owen Bird]

Yes, absolutely.

There's definitely an acknowledgement by the community at large. I would generalize there's tremendous opportunity for smaller communities, coastal communities, and that sort of thing.

Yes, we are seeing first nations becoming involved in both a local manner and investing in lodge operations and that sort of thing. That is a nice bit of cooperative collaborative activity that's occurring and an opportunity being presented.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Mr. Farrant, when I was at your convention last week I was astonished to hear that 60% of the recreational fish that are caught are released. One of your researchers pointed that out and that amounts to a 100 million fish being released every year in Canada. As an angler myself I'm proud of our community for that kind of conservation ethic.

Can you talk about the history of catch and release from where it was 20 or 30 years ago? How did it happen that now we have an angling community that is ferociously concerned about conservation to the level that they release most of the fish that they catch?

[Greg Farrant]

I don't think that it's any surprise that anglers, and particularly in this case recreational anglers, are any strangers to environmental causes or any strangers to conservation of the resource. That's been the case for well over a century.

At the Ministry of Natural Resources in Ontario we now have two forms of licensing. We have a sport fishing licence and we have a conservation fishing licence, which we strongly support. With the conservation fishing licence you take less, you put back more, and it's something that anglers and hunters strongly supported and pushed for. We recognize that the resources are finite. There is a limit to it and as conservationists we want to make sure that resource is sustainable today and for the future.

That's why catch and release has become such a growing phenomenon, if you want to call it that, because everybody recognizes that if you want those species there for the future you better start protecting them now.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

I think you make a very important point, Mr. Farrant, that with angling and hunting there is often an artificial rural-urban split. I read somewhere that of the 922,000 angling licenses that are sold in Ontario, give or take, about 40% of them are sold in the GTA. It always bothers me when angling and hunting are referred to as rural activities.

They are because much of it takes place out there but many people live in cities. The term recreation can be broken down to “re-creation” and so people get out there to re-create themselves.

Can you talk about OFAH's urban affiliates and chapters, how many you have in the GTA, and how active they are?

[Greg Farrant]

I can't tell you the exact number, but one of the most prolific organizations or clubs that is part of OFAH is the Chinese Anglers Association in Toronto. It's based in Toronto. All its members are in Toronto, and it is an enormous organization. It's very vocal and active, and it's very proud of being an OFAH affiliate. Obviously this brings into the sphere new Canadians. It brings new cultures into recreational fishing and we're very proud of its success.

Organizations like that exist in most municipalities across southern Ontario. That's just one in particular that I cite as being a great success in terms of recreational fishing and its contribution to the field.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much.

Mr. MacAulay.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and I welcome the witnesses to committee.

I must say I'm very pleased we were able to convince the government of the importance of this study, because I think it's very important. The big thing was to get it off the ground but we finally got it off the ground.

It's great that you're here, but it's unfortunate that we have such a short time for questions.

Mr. Farrant, you mentioned monitoring and the catch and release. Is there enough monitoring? How is it handled? Does the government support some of this, or is it all done by your organization?

Also, Mr. Kristianson, could you just give us a little rundown on the lodges? We've talked a number of times before about the lodges and the quotas, and there's always an issue over quotas for halibut, but even for salmon or anything else. Do you feel there is some way a program could be put in place? There is always that pull between the recreational fishery and the commercial fishery. Could there be a way of renting quotas, or could something along those lines be done to appease both sides? Or is there just going to be a continual battle? I think we've had this discussion before.

As well, Mr. Bird—because they're apt to cut me off if I don't get all the questions in—you mentioned that DFO could improve in some areas in the recreational fishery. The only thing I'm sure the committee would want to know is what areas you feel it could improve in, because Mr. Farrant indicated that there is between $15 billion and $16 billion involved in this. It's worth that kind of money. It's a lot of money. Are there things we should recommend to the government in order to improve this fishery and to make it larger?

Mr. Kristianson, where do you see the lodges going? Is there just going to be endless expansion? With the endless expansion, will there be an endless tug between both fisheries? I'd like you to address it that way.

Thank you very much.

[Greg Farrant]

I'll address the monitoring question, Mr. MacAulay.

The Ministry of Natural Resources is responsible for monitoring in Ontario. We do, however, have what are called FMZs—fisheries management zones—which are cooperative efforts between the ministry and local on-the-ground organizations like OFAH, local fish clubs, and whatnot, that meet regularly and define policies and programs in specific fisheries management zones across the province. They address monitoring issues. Obviously, the ministry, through conservation officers, undertakes creel surveys across the province during recreational fishing seasons on an ad hoc basis.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Are there many problems?

[Greg Farrant]

Clearly more of them could be done. Give or take, there are about 300 boots on the ground—if you will—or conservation officers in Ontario, which is not very many for a very large stretch of land. You could probably double or triple the number of COs out there, which would certainly enhance monitoring and enforcement of quotas and regulations, and monitoring of all species.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you.

[Dr. Gerald Kristianson]

Thank you, Mr. MacAulay.

I will speak to this issue. Your question implies, as some people suggest, that there are two different recreational fisheries, that there's an ordinary tin boat anglers recreational fishery, and there's a “commercial” recreational fishery, in the sense that one goes to a lodge or charter boat and someone takes you fishing. I have to say that I categorically reject that approach.

The reality is that the fish are owned by the people of Canada. The government, through the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, has an allocation authority, and it needs to make a choice, after making sure there are adequate fish to sustain the future, between those people who wish to catch those fish for sale for direct economic gain, the commercial fishery, and those who wish to catch fish for personal use, which could include the pleasure of releasing a fish. But most tidal water anglers are fishing because they like to eat fish.

The fact is that we have worked against any suggestion that you create some new category that in effect then puts the service providers, such as lodges, in the same position as the holders of halibut quota now, where we've reached the situation where most of the commercial halibut quota is held by people who don't fish.

[A voice]

That's right.

[Dr. Gerald Kristianson]

They are in fact commodity brokers, who annually broker this commodity to the remaining members of the fleet who still go out and catch fish.

I understand all the reasons why it got there. It's a very difficult problem for government. No party can take blame or claim for it, but we want to stay out of that.

In fact, we reject the notion that one way to advance the recreational fishery is that anglers would have to go and buy quota from commercial fishermen who somehow have been given, then, what amounts to a property right that the Supreme Court of Canada says does not exist. It was for that reason that the Sport Fishing Institute and the B.C. Wildlife Federation joined with the Government of Canada in a court case called the Malcolm case, in which we argued that the government had the right to allocate and that the transfer of three percentage points by the current government to the recreational fishery did not require that the commercial sector be paid the commercial lease rate or purchase rate for those fish.

[Owen Bird]

I know that you asked Gerry the question about the lodges, but I wouldn't want to emphasize this idea that the people catching the fish are anglers. They're licence-holders. This is an idea that's very widely supported by the recreational community. The B.C. Wildlife Federation, the SFAB, and the lodge operators all work quite harmoniously, as a general and fair statement. There isn't any kind of conflict between the lodge operation or guides and that sort of thing in the recreational community at large.

To address your question regarding how DFO may improve, they could improve by, one, adopting the strategy that Gerry and the SFAB have put forward. The easy and quick answer, really, would be to dedicate commensurate resources with what are the social and economic values of the recreational fishery, in B.C. in particular, to recognize that and then adjust how expenditures are allocated accordingly.

On the particular items, again, catch monitoring is quite important for understanding the impacts and managing the resources from the recreational fishery and how it relates to the other fisheries and those impacts. We're also very interested in what tools are available to the recreational fishery and recreational anglers. I think improvements could be made by DFO in terms of these tools. The—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

What tools do you mean?

[Owen Bird]

As it stands, just last year, in tidal waters in British Columbia, the DFO has gone to electronic licensing. Everybody must acquire a licence by electronic means. There are currently no ways to actually have the licence be electronic, to have it on a smartphone or some sort of device. This is not a big deal, but this would be quite helpful for an electronic age.

The tools include making regulations, area information, species identification, ideas about resource management, fisheries notices, and that sort of thing more readily available to recreational anglers and the public generally. The feeling is that you can do that and put this information into the hands of the recreational anglers. They have a greater appreciation and are obviously able to abide by the rules and regulations of the day.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

What is the mortality rate on catch and release?

[Owen Bird]

It is quite low.

It depends on the species and there are definitely allowances for that, or there's an appreciation for those mortalities. On the catch and release of large salmon, for example, it's in the order of 10%. On halibut, it's probably more in the order of 2%—very low—but those numbers are inputted into harvest rates as well.