Fisheries Committee on May 5th, 2015

[Ryan Cleary, NDP, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Are there any estimates on the number of fish that it produces, the number of trout?

[Rob Olson]

Hundreds of thousands.

[Jeffrey Connolly]

Millions. It's big. Today actually, as we speak, there's brood stock, there's brown trout brood stock being brought from the Whiteshell to be released in one of our lakes in this area because they've exceeded their use in the hatcheries. They're actually bringing the brood stock here. These are big, mature trout.

Don Lamont is a sport fishing kind of person. He's been staying with us. In the last two days he's been out fishing. He and a couple of friends have caught over 10 master angler brown trout. You could go in a 12-foot boat, drive an hour from our house, and catch these fish. I mean these are 22-inch to 26-inch trout, and it's only because of the hatchery.

[Peter Borowski]

We have people talking about that tiger trout situation. It's in a lake called Twin Lakes, which is on the.... We are on the west side of Manitoba here about 10 miles from Saskatchewan, so we get a lot of Saskatchewan people coming here. I've personally met a guy who lives in Alberta, has the whole river, lives right in Calgary, packs up the Bow River fishing boat, and comes here annually to spend two weeks with friends. They all gather up and go chasing our tiger trout and our triploid rainbow trout.

I don't know how well you gentlemen know the lay of Manitoba. We have what we call mountains here, the Porcupine—they're really hills— the Duck Mountain, and the Riding Mountain, which is a federal park. But in these two hills or mountains, which are about 1,500 feet elevation above the surrounding area, we have 100- to 200-foot deep lakes that are 1,000 acres, 200 acres. Sometimes there are 20- 30-acre lakes that still have 60 feet of water in them.

This is where these cold-water species go, and they are extremely successful. It's been like that since I've been fishing in the 1970s in this area. It's not unusual to go see through the ice when you're ice fishing—because we have lakes where you can see the bottom—sitting on top of the ice in 25-foot water, and see 30-pound lake trout go by, which is more a rarity because they get caught before they get to that age. So we have a tremendous diversity from the walleye in Lake Manitoba. Lake Winnipegosis is commercially fished and sport fished all the way to these trout, which add a tremendous balance of fishing activity in this area.

[Ryan Cleary, NDP, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

And it's all because of the hatchery.

[Peter Borowski]

Yes, sir, the trout, and there is walleye because of the hatchery also.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Sopuck.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Thank you.

I want to have on the record that both Mr. Connolly and Mr. Borowski are constituents of mine. I'm very proud to represent them in Ottawa. I attended their fisheries dinner last weekend in Swan River, and it was a marvellous success. I've experienced firsthand the passion and dedication that all of our witnesses spoke about.

I'd like to ask Mr. Olson a question.

This is the first time that the fisheries and oceans standing committee has conducted a study on recreational fishing. So, simply put, why is this study important?

[Rob Olson]

In our view it's really important because, if you want to engage people in conserving water and lakes, if you want to engage the citizens in water quality, if you want to get people caring about endangered species that live in those waterways, the best way to get people engaged is through fishing. It just creates this immediate connection, love, and passion for the waterway, and once you hook them through fishing, you've got them. You've got their attention and you've got their minds and hearts. You can have conversations about endangered species. You can talk about water quality. You can talk about the need for wetland conservation to deal with flood mitigation.

You want to try to engage citizens in Canada on all of those issues citizens in Canada. In our view maybe the best way to do it is through a strike on a hook on a rod, with the bending of the rod, and the excitement. There's just something about it; it's magic. You can't take human beings fishing, get them hooked up on a fish, and not see them get excited. They're always fired up about it, then it always leads to great thing. So for me, it's a way in.

The gentleman from Swan River talked about how government can't pay for everything anymore. You know, they talked about how the hatchery is now on the backs of the fishers, and we don't mind that because we have a passion. We realize that government is not going to save us from all these things and can't pay for everything. So, if you as a government are going to try to engage the citizens and you're going to try to get all these things done on the landscape, how will you do that? I think those recreational fishing grounds are awesome. Anything you can do to get people fishing is going to pay off in spades economically and environmentally.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Thanks.

Mr. Olson, given that you are the head of a province-wide group, can you very succinctly answer this question: What is the quality of recreational fishing in Manitoba right now?

[Rob Olson]

I think it's incredible. I am not sure what Mr. Connolly and Mr. Borowski would say, but I think it's amazing. Thanks to groups like those gents in Swan River, I don't think it has ever been better.

I'm going fishing this weekend in Ontario, and I was talking to a fellow out there who is 87 and has been living out there and fishing. He says it has never been better. With modern slot limits and modern management, in spite of declining government revenue, there has been so much done to enhance fisheries. To me, the good old days are now, and I think it can even get better.

Now we have to leverage the excitement and the quality of the fishing into more. How do we use that to get more people into fishing? How do we then engage these people who are fishing into enhancing water further and dealing with water quality, and get their attention on flood mitigation? How do we make the link and say “You love the fishing. It's as good as it has ever been. Well, we need your help right now”? We have other issues on the waterways too, such as invasive species, as the gents were talking about in Swan River as well.

The good old days are now.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Mr. Olsen, I'll follow up on your points regarding DFO and the enforcement approach to conservation. If I heard correctly, you said that it clearly didn't work. Can we safely say the enforcement effort that DFO made on the agricultural landscape and other areas basically had no effect on improving the quality of sport fishing in Manitoba?

[Rob Olson]

Our view is that it had no effect. I knew a lot of people who took those jobs. We were all graduating about that time. One of the few groups that were hiring at the time was DFO, and so a lot of my friends and different people I know took those jobs. The approach didn't work. It did not enhance fisheries, in our view. That is not to say that regulation is not important. There need to be rules; there needs to be enforcement. But copping up and hitting the landscape with staff like that does not engage humans. It alienates people. It doesn't work. It alienates rural communities, and it's unfortunate because we could do it differently. There is a different way to engage those communities and get better results, not just for recreational fishing, but for water quality and flood mitigation as well.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

I couldn't agree with you more. We did get criticized for changes we made to DFO, and to have an expert like you say on the record that that money and that staff were basically wasted on the enforcement effort is very important. I strongly agree with you on the importance of the recreational fisheries fund, simply because we made the choice to change the Fisheries Act, change that enforcement mentality, and put $55 million into incentive-based programming to help local angling groups enhance fisheries, and all three of the witnesses are basically saying that the fishing quality in Manitoba is second to none.

I guess I'll ask Mr. Connolly this. Spending government dollars directly in partnership with local angling conservation groups is an approach that clearly works, isn't it?

[Jeffrey Connolly]

That works with huge success. Any sport fishing group, as basically Brad has shown passion for, is volunteering not for recognition but because we see there is a need. We see that things have to be done, and anywhere we can access money to improve.... We have massive lists of projects to improve fishing for everybody. We don't do this just so that Pete and I can go fishing. We do it so that Pete and I, and every kid, grandparent, or whoever else in this community, can go fishing and can still go fishing in 10 years and have fish to catch. So any dollars that are available are greatly appreciated. We have huge projects. If there is no money, we can't raise that much money for what needs to be done to maintain high-quality sport fishing in this province.

I can honestly say, Mr. Chisholm, you being from Nova Scotia, that if you came to Swan River, you probably wouldn't go back to Nova Scotia and would never take your rod out again.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

There is no salt in the air—

[Peter Borowski]

I am not sure of the procedure here. If I want to put in a few words, should I raise my hand? How should I interject here? I would like to make a comment going back to DFO—

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Go ahead, Pete.

[Peter Borowski]

Going back to the DFO scenario, when they geared up and came in with bullet-proof vests and guns on their hips, I was still currently employed with the Province of Manitoba in conservation and forestry.

We have a large company that produces OSB here to the tune of more than a million cords of wood a year, basically using hardwoods—poplar and birch—and to a lesser extent some softwoods. And wow, did things become difficult—extremely difficult. They pointed out some good things, such as better small stream management scenarios in places such as Duck Mountain and the Porcupine Mountains. That was good, but they made operations extremely difficult and added a lot of expense.

The Province of Manitoba has initiated, over the last 30 years, groups called water conservation districts, which look at major rivers in this province that have water-quality issues, drainage issues, and issues involving conflicts with agriculture in which fields are flooded and put under water. I think that if DFO is looking for something to work and to get farmers to do a better job, you work with those conservation districts. They are local people; they have context on the land base, because the municipalities are on their boards of directors. They do an excellent job of talking and working with farmers, grassing waterways, improving stream crossings—ford crossings—making them fish-positive. They are a tremendous group to access and to work with.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

You have about a minute left.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

Okay.

Mr. Connolly and Mr. Borowski, given the passion for conservation that you and your group have clearly displayed, is it safe to say that the angler's role in conservation has been adequately recognized by governments and society?

[Jeffrey Connolly]

By governments, no, it has not been. Our provincial government has once again cut our budget. It blows me away that right now our provincial fisheries manager looks after all of sport fishing and all of commercial fishing in the western part of the province of Manitoba. His office is based in Swan River. The province does not even give him a vehicle to drive. The man is a manager of a provincial fishery and he can't even drive a work vehicle. That's pretty much the only thing you have to explain, because the list goes on further.

It's so frustrating to see a $400 million industry and not be sure what the provincial government is even doing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much.

[Peter Borowski]

And going back—

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

I'm sorry; I apologize, but I have to move on to the next questioner.

Mr. MacAulay.