Fisheries Committee on May 12th, 2015

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

I call this meeting to order. I'd like to thank our guest, Monsieur Baril, for being with us today.

I assume the clerk has already advised you that we generally allow about 10 minutes for opening comments and remarks. Following that, we'll move into questions and answers. I'd ask that you try to keep your responses concise so that members can get as many questions in as possible.

Whenever you're ready, Monsieur Baril, the floor is yours.

[Michel Baril, Biologist, Quebec Federation of Anglers and Hunters]

Good morning.

Members of the committee, our federation would like to thank you for having taken the time to listen to our comments for your study on recreational fishing.

My name is Michel Baril and I'm a biologist with the Fédération québécoise des chasseurs et pêcheurs, the Quebec federation of anglers and hunters.

The Fédération québécoise des chasseurs et pêcheurs is a not-for-profit organization that was created in 1946. Our mission is to contribute to the development and perpetuation of hunting and sport angling as traditional, heritage and sporting activities.

Our general objectives are as follows: we represent the interests of sport hunters and anglers, we advocate for hunting and angling activities, and we promote them in order to ensure their continuity, we promote responsible behaviour from hunters and anglers, we cooperate with public authorities to create conservation and land management programs for the fauna, we cooperate with public authorities to establish fauna management plans that help governments reach their biological, social, and economic objectives.

Our federation now represents over 200 associations who have 125,000 members throughout Quebec. Two entities help us reach our objectives; Héritage faune and Sécurité nature.

Héritage faune is the federation's official foundation. It was created in 1980 and seeks to provide various streams of funding for land and aquatic fauna management projects, scholarships, and advocates renewal programs particularly in the field of sports angling. In 2015, it will fund 62 recreational angling renewal projects.

Sécurité nature was created in 1995. It is the federation's program for education. It offers courses for the Fauna, Safety and Conservation Education Program, also known as PESCOF, and coordinates 450 volunteer trainers who give the courses in all the regions of Quebec. It also drafts educational resources on conservation and the development of wildlife and its habitats as well as relevant open-air recreational activities. In 2014 alone, this program trained 20,000 people through the Canadian Firearms Safety Course.

Over the last few years, the federation has been involved in many sports angling development and promotion programs in Quebec. Amongst our more significant case files, there is the legalization of hunting and fishing activities. Consequently, at the end of the 1990s and the beginning of the 2010 decade, the federation worked with other organizations to protect wildlife hunting and fishing, including sports angling.

In 2002, the Government of Quebec made consequential amendments to the Act respecting the conservation and development of wildlife. Section 1.3 of the Act now states that: “Every person has a right to hunt, fish and trap in accordance with the law.” Section 1.4 states: “No person may knowingly hinder a person who is lawfully carrying on an activity referred to in the first paragraph of section 1.3, including an activity preparatory to such an activity.”

The federation also participates in developing sport angling, for example during our Fishing Festival, a three-day activity in June during which Quebeckers can fish without a licence. With its Héritage faune foundation, the federation delivers 62 subsidies to affiliates that organize training and renewal activities during this festival.

The federation also actively participates in wildlife management in Quebec and in Canada. In Quebec, it is part of the National Wildlife Round Table and the regional wildlife round tables that were created pursuant to the Act respecting conservation and development of wildlife. At the Canadian level, the federation works with the Canadian Wildlife Service on waterfowl management.

It is also a member of the Canadian Wildlife Federation. It is also part of the Hunting and Angling Advisory Panel that was created in 2013 by the federal Department of the Environment. Mr. Pierre Latraverse, our federation's president, participates in this advisory panel himself.

I would now like to say a few words on the sport fishing management framework in Quebec.

Fishing on state land is managed based on different types of land: controlled harvesting zones, land that is managed by volunteer boards; outfitter operations operated by private companies pursuant to agreements with the government; wildlife preserves managed by the Société des établissements de plein air du Québec, otherwise known as Sépaq, a government corporation; and free land with no given structure that can be freely used.

Together, these regions offer Quebeckers a wealth of opportunities to go fishing, whether on free expeditions of a few hours or on multi-day trips to the most enchanting sites. In fact, one of the roles the federation has taken on is to highlight the importance of fishing as an economic engine.

In Quebec, as in the rest of Canada, fishing is an important factor in economic development. Each year in Quebec, roughly 565,000 fishing permits are sold. Here's an interesting fact: it was recently demonstrated that the economic impact of fishing is greater in more densely populated regions and that city centres also benefit from the economic spinoffs of recreational fishing.

The compilation of the results of studies carried out recently, including the 2012 Canadian Nature Survey, showed that there are roughly 735,000 fishers spread out in all regions of the province. Of that number, 500,000 go fishing every year. For the remainder, they go fishing at least once every five years.

In 2012, fishers as a whole spent roughly 11.8 million days practising recreational fishing, which generated overall economic spinoffs of $1.2 billion. Broadly speaking, this amount can be separated into two types of spending: current expenses such as lodging, gas, permits, food, and so on, and spending on durable goods such as boats, equipment, vehicles, camping equipment, and everything else.

Walleye and brook trout are the most highly sought-after species and those which result in the greatest economic spinoffs. These two species are ranked even higher than moose, the large game sought after by the largest number of hunters. Walleye generates spinoffs of $360 million, while the brook trout generates spinoffs of $340 million. These two fish species alone represent half of the spending by fishers.

In passing, I would like to say a few words about ice fishing, which is a very popular winter activity in Quebec. Each year, ice fishing enthusiasts spend roughly $50 million on fishing certain freshwater species, particularly yellow perch, or on salt water species such as redfish.

Over the coming years, the recreational fishing sector will be faced with challenges. There is the problem of access to waterways, which is itself the result of two problems: the privatisation, for residential development purposes, of land bordering lakes, and the fact that municipalities reserve access to their waterways to their own residents. These problems are, however, difficult to resolve, and it is up to the government to demonstrate will to improve the situation.

That being said, the federation has successfully raised the awareness of the provincial government, which has committed to conducting an overview of the situation; to checking the legal component of the issue and, possibly, to producing an information guide for municipalities. On our end, the federation has tackled the issue from a different perspective by creating an Internet application, allonspecher.com, which is an interactive map that details over 1,600 places where there is public access to lakes, to rivers and to the St. Lawrence River.

Another challenge facing the recreational fishing industry in Quebec is the training of the next generation in sufficient numbers and interest. A recent study conducted by the Société des établissements de plein air du Québec clearly shows that younger generations, those who range in age from 25 to 35 and 35 to 45, from which the next generation must be trained, do not perceive fishing in the same way as their parents. Rather, these younger generations consider fishing to be a complementary activity to be practised during vacations or outdoor excursions. As a result, even if the next generation is trained in sufficient numbers, they may not always fish as regularly as past generations. This may result in Quebec having fewer days of fishing, and therefore reduce the economic spinoffs. This decline will likely be felt in the next five years.

To address this issue as well, the federation created an online tool with the objective of putting hunters, fishers and trappers in contact with each other. This site, Mentorat chasse, pêche, piégeage, allows members of the fishing community to contact one another. To sum up, recreational fishing in Quebec is a significant economic engine, but it is also an activity that is sought after for relaxation and outdoor excursions. To maintain its full potential, this resource may need to be protected, even though it is doing quite well on the whole, but the interest of Quebeckers for this activity must also be maintained.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much, Mr. Baril.

We'll now go to our question and answer period. We'll start with Mr. Lapointe.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Baril.

First of all, I want to applaud all of the initiatives taken by your organization. You have wildlife redevelopment projects, some 125,000 members, you have trained 450 volunteer monitors, and I could go on.

It is truly impressive. This is in keeping with the other information that you have provided to us. Approximately 500,000 people a year come back to fish, and recreational fishing activities have direct benefits on the order of $1.2 billion in Quebec alone. That is very important.

For all these reasons, I would like us to look together into some of the problems we are facing in order to ensure the sustainability of all of these activities.

First of all, let us talk about the fish, or the elephant in the room.

In 2014, Quebec's ministère du Développement durable, de l'Environnement et de la Lutte contre les changements climatiques indicated that three times fewer salmon are returning to Quebec rivers than 30 years ago. In 2015, a decision was therefore taken by the Quebec government: to impose mandatory release on 14 North Shore rivers and two in the Lower St. Lawrence. It was the ministère des Forêts, de la Faune et des Parcs that took the decision.

The Quebec federation of anglers and hunters and the Quebec Atlantic Salmon Federation jointly signed a memorandum in 2013. This document dealt with the possibility that the federal government might add certain Atlantic salmon populations in Quebec to the species at risk list. I would like to know if in your opinion there is an imminent threat to Atlantic salmon in Quebec. What are the most significant threats? Do you have any solutions to suggest that might prevent seeing a decline in the resource in some of our rivers, or even seeing them disappear?

[Michel Baril]

First of all, the Quebec Atlantic Salmon Federation deals with salmon-related issues. It is therefore an important partner with whom we often work. Furthermore, we are to table a new memorandum on the subject tomorrow. Usually, we leave the leadership on these initiatives to the Quebec Atlantic Salmon Federation, but nevertheless, more often than not, we support what the federation recommends.

To what degree should we be concerned by the problem of the decline in salmon? A lot of red lights are lighting up these days. However, we believe that the ministère des Forêts, de la Faune et des Parcs in Quebec is currently providing adequate management.

As far as the new measure is concerned, that of mandatory release of all large salmon, our federation's position is not yet established. That is why I cannot share it with you. I believe that the Quebec Atlantic Salmon Federation, however, has some doubts.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Do you think you will be able to establish your position over the course of the next few weeks?

[Michel Baril]

Yes, certainly. In fact, we should be supporting the Quebec Atlantic Salmon Federation's memorandum over the course of the next few days. Our position will therefore be established in a few weeks, if not a few days' time.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

As far as the other part of my question is concerned, do you have any solutions to suggest?

[Michel Baril]

In fact, they need to be explored. Furthermore, the new memorandum from the Quebec Atlantic Salmon Federation talks a lot about putting even more emphasis on research, really studying the problem, to evaluate the status of stocks over the last 30 years and trying to compare Quebec's management, river by river, with the more comprehensive management of the Maritime provinces.

However, we need to have a more accurate picture of the situation before taking further steps. In Quebec, we feel that the river-by-river management approach is the best means. One of the most important components of river-by-river management is the fact that salmon anglers visiting the rivers bring income to the river managers that can be used to contribute to the protection of the resource.

Also, the fact that we have anglers on our rivers allows us to keep an eye on those rivers. If there are no more anglers, the rivers would be left to themselves. If that were the case, we might poaching might become a concern.

In short, the fact that we have anglers on the rivers is no doubt an advantage. Currently, we advise keeping river-by-river management.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, your perspective is helpful.

Many of your counterparts from other provinces have mentioned, pretty consistently, another problem that greatly concerned them. It is the important issue of invasive species, regarding which the federal government can play a truly active role. It could be, for example, better screening of pleasure crafts that cross the border from the United States.

We have heard very concerning stories of some boats not being verified at all or even cleaned before they enter our lakes. There are therefore two interesting points based on your expertise. What initiatives should be taken or improved in your opinion to prevent this kind of problem?

Currently, there are already problems with invasive species. Could you assess for us the extent of these problems in our lakes?

[Michel Baril]

In Quebec, the problem is still limited in our lakes, but in the seaway it is certainly a major problem. We are already working on it.

In cases like this, our federation's role is mostly to raise awareness. Through our education and awareness programs, we ask fishers mainly, but also recreational boaters, to be careful not to bring invasive aquatic species from one body of water to another.

We support the federal government in all measures it takes to limit the introduction of invasive species in Quebec.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Could you explain what the federal government could improve, or suggest new measures it could put in place to prevent the introduction of invasive species?

[Michel Baril]

We are not experts, but to our knowledge, aquatic invasive species are brought in by boats that use waterways. There is also the problem of ballast water and all of that. Legislation could probably be improved in this regard. As it is not one of our specialties, I wouldn't want to say more on this subject.

The role of our federation is to raise awareness and educate people. We do so very actively with fishers, hunters and boaters.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Baril.

I came across a pretty detailed documentary that concluded that in Quebec, for the past 10 years or so, 75% of fishers have been over 45, and the sale of permits has been stagnant for nearly 15 years. That reflects one of your observations on the new generation you described as between 20 and 44 years of age, which does not see fishing the same way.

[Michel Baril]

Correct.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Your observation seems very accurate. If I understand correctly, people from this new generation will not plan all of their vacations around fishing. The won't stop everything for three weeks just to go fishing. There is a potential decrease then in the use of fishing sites. Once again, do you have any solutions to suggest? If there are more people who use fishing sites for fewer days, could we maintain comparable levels of activity or are we facing a problem for which we don't yet have a solution?

[Michel Baril]

In the world of recreational activities, a lot of people do everything they can for their own sector, be it fishing, golf or others. We could go over all of these recreational activities. But in our opinion, if we want to improve the situation, we will have to work harder on marketing. We are already working hard on that. We believe in marketing and we are convinced that we can make fishing more attractive to the younger generation to attract many new fishing enthusiasts.

We are producing video clips for that purpose. We are working very hard on promoting fishing and to make it an accessible activity. We are focusing a lot on making fishing accessible. Perhaps people should stop seeing fishing as being only an adventure lasting a couple of days in the backwoods. We have to make fishing generally more attractive to everyone. You can fish in the city. Our offices are located near Quebec City. The river is a terrific water body where all kinds of fish can be caught. We believe in promotion, we are working hard on it, and we are convinced that it is a good way to improve the situation.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

A bit less than three weeks ago, I took part in a fundraising dinner in my riding for the Société de gestion de la rivière Ouelle. I was sitting with several very competent people for that sector, and they all agreed that fishing was perceived as being an expensive activity, which is really not the case. For instance, a fishing licence for the Ouelle River is $30 per family per day. So it is less expensive for a family to go fishing for an entire day than to go to the movies during one evening.

Do you agree with that assessment of the situation, as made by some of your colleagues from organizations in the rest of Quebec? We have to change this perception so that middle-income families feel they can afford recreational fishing.

[Michel Baril]

Yes, absolutely, and that completes in part what I was saying a few moments ago.

You often picture a fisherman as sitting at the wheel of a big truck, with a rowboat on a trailer and equipment worth $75,000. We are going to keep that fishing niche because some enthusiasts love it. However, we also have to promote fishing as being an affordable activity.

You can do all kinds of fishing outings, for almost nothing, in the vicinity of large cities. The St. Lawrence River, which flows through Quebec City and Montreal, is a really great fishing opportunity for people who want to engage in this kind of activity. What you say is true: it is up to us to do our own marketing to reach those people and to let them know that it is possible for them to easily find great fishing at little cost.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Baril.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Monsieur Lapointe.

Mr. Kamp.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Baril, for appearing before us. We appreciate your presentation. You've given us a lot of helpful information and a lot of detail.

In addition to the economic contribution that recreational fisheries make in the province and the number of fishers, and so on, do you have a comment on the cultural significance of fishing in the province? I ask that because I'm from British Columbia, and out there we like to think that recreational fishing, particularly in the marine waters, is a very important cultural activity. Yes, it makes that important contribution to our GDP, but do you have that same sense in Quebec as well?

[Michel Baril]

Yes, recreational fishing is very important in Quebec, from a cultural point of view. We often see that people are not connected enough to nature. However, we believe that recreational fishing is a wonderful gateway for people to discover nature. As soon as you start recreational fishing, you are connected with nature, with waterways, rivers, birds and wild animals. An activity like that one is often an open door into the natural world. Our ancestors lived in close contact with nature, and we would really want this contact to continue in the future.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Thank you very much for that. That's very well said, and we would agree with you on that. We thank you for the work you do on that behalf.

Can you elaborate a little more on how recreational fisheries are managed in the province? Is there a difference between how they're managed in salt water, for example, in marine waters, as opposed to freshwater fisheries? For example, is there a shared responsibility between the province and the Department of Fisheries and Oceans?

[Michel Baril]

In Quebec, the provincial government is responsible for managing freshwater and migrating fish. The federal government is responsible for marine fish that can be found in the river and sometimes in the Saguenay fjord.

With regard to population management, we know that in our lakes there are many different populations of fish. This makes management easier because we can rather precisely establish population levels. This allows us to implement management measures to help the levels remain stable or even increase. Those are the advantages of managing lake fish populations.

The Quebec Ministry of Forests, Wildlife, and Parks implements precise management plans for certain species. Therefore, there is a specific management plan for salmon. There is also a specific management plan for the lake trout, and for the walleye.

We concentrate on a species, we determine its population level throughout the province and implement management measures to keep these levels stable, and in certain cases to increase them.

In Quebec, we closely and precisely manage our populations.