Fisheries Committee on May 12th, 2015

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Thank you for that.

We've been hearing in some provinces that there are some concerns about the ability to monitor recreational fishing to be able to know with any kind of certainty how many fish are actually being caught. Can you tell us what the experience is in Quebec?

[Michel Baril]

That is a good question.

As far as I know, the oversight for our waterways is rather good. Many of our lakes are part of what we call structured land—part of an outfitter operation, in a controlled development area, or in a Sépaq wildlife preserve—that covers a large part of southern Quebec. This allows us to conduct relatively precise oversight on anglers. These establishments often have fishery guardians, wildlife protection officers who are in the field, or wildlife protection assistants that help them monitor what anglers do. The fact that many lakes are part of this structured land allows us to monitor what anglers do.

In the far north of Quebec, the land is open to use by all but is often inaccessible due to the distance that must be travelled to reach it. We are not aware of any current problems in the lakes in northern Quebec.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Thank you.

Can you tell us what your organization's experience is with the recreational fisheries conservation partnership program? Has it gone well? Do you have any suggestions about how that program could be improved, if in fact you've been using it?

[Michel Baril]

Are you talking about the federal government's recreational fisheries conservation partnerships?

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Yes, that's the program.

[Michel Baril]

Our federation does not have staff and does not directly conduct land development projects. However, through our Héritage faune foundation, we grant funds to associations in order to help them carry out such projects. These associations often turn to the federal recreational fisheries conservation partnerships. Most associations are glad to have this program, but may have something to say about it. I should share one or two of their opinions.

Associations would like to have data collection projects included in the program as they are prerequisites for wildlife development projects. For example, an association that wishes to carry out any kind of development project would like data on their intended site. This could be biological or geological data accessible to them the year before they are expecting to begin work.

There is also the issue of percentages. For a project to be eligible for funding, the total support coming from all levels of government must not go beyond 75%. If associations conducting development projects can't go beyond 75%, this implies that they have to provide the remaining 25%.

Often, they do not have the necessary resources to provide that 25%. That is why they would like to see some improvements to the federal recreational fisheries conservation partnership program, to allow the federal government to subsidize a larger part of the projects submitted to the program.

These are comments we hear on a regular basis.

[Randy Kamp, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC]

Good. Thank you for that. As I understand it, that 25% can also be a contribution in-kind.

Thank you for your suggestions. I know that the department and the minister are continuing to think about how to improve that program. It's been quite successful so far, so thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. Kamp.

Mr. MacAulay.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Doctor, welcome to the committee. We're pleased to have you. It's an important study.

Your submission indicates that the redfish, the main catch in the Saguenay, has declined a lot. You also mentioned the trout fishery in the recreational fishing area. I'd like you to comment on what measures are taking place. Do you have a handle on the stock itself, the redfish and the trout fishery? Do you have the figures, the numbers? Does the department or anybody have any idea of what the stock is like in these areas?

[Michel Baril]

In terms of redfish, it's not really our role to adjust any stocks or harvests. We're more involved in promoting fishing, in promotional activities. That being said, I believe redfish stocks are doing well. There were problems in the past, but I think that thanks to the state of harvesting and to mandatory quotas in the Saguenay Fjord, the situation has improved. However, I cannot tell you more than that.

In terms of the trout fishery in Quebec, the situation is quite good. The Ministry of Forestry, Wildlife and Parks has been doing a considerable amount of work on the trout fishery because it is very important economically. I believe that the Quebec government will be putting in place a management plan in order to have a better picture of the situation and to perhaps improve certain aspects of it.

From what we know, many outfitters make a living from the trout fishery. Things are going quite well. Where needed, stocking can be done in order to sustain the fishery and extend the fishing season. The trout stocking economy is very active in most areas. Generally speaking, the management of the Quebec trout fishery is going quite well.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

You also mentioned in your presentation the private land issue. I would suspect that is about people purchasing land on the water and then claiming rights right up to the waterway. I'd like you to explain the problems that's causing and what measures need to be put in place to have this problem dealt with or handled in some way, because it's obviously a problem.

[Michel Baril]

It is a significant problem. In fact, it's a political problem. In Quebec, almost all bodies of water belong to the state. Therefore, anyone can go fishing in those waters. The problem has to do with access to the water. In some cases, as I said earlier, the privatization of residential development has limited access to these lakes. Furthermore, municipalities have tended to support their residents' positions, which further limits the access of non-residents to the lakes.

For example, if there is a public access point, for example, a ramp, the municipality will impose fees for local fishers or residents, but will set huge fees for non-resident fishers. We have asked the government to clean this up. We are not advocating free access to lakes for everyone, but at the very least, the fees set for access to certain lakes by fishers should be reasonable. We think that a $10, $15, $20 or $25 daily fee for access to a lake is reasonable. However, in some cases, non-residents have to pay access fees of $50, $100 or even $150. That is unreasonable.

There are ramps and access points for many lakes. It's the fees that prevent people from getting to the lake. That is why it is a political problem. Awareness-raising has to be done with municipal authorities and with citizens living on these lakes in order to make them understand that Quebec's lakes belong to all citizens.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

What I understand about it is that the landowners who purchase the property handy to the water have to have access to private sector land in order to get on the lakes.

You're saying the rates are high. Who sets the rate? I would think it would be a very poor tourism promotion to be charging tourists a lot more than local people. Is it the landowners themselves? Who sets the fees and is this done in order to prevent...or do some people purchase property for their own privacy?

Is that what this is all about, to keep a lot of people out? Could you expand on that?

[Michel Baril]

Yes. Fees appear to be set absolutely arbitrarily. The municipalities decide what fees they will set. We have seen that no one municipality sets the same fees for accessing lakes in its area. Each municipality sets different fees and does not use a common scale.

We have asked the provincial government to set minimum and maximum fees that municipalities will have to abide by. This does not currently exist and therefore cities do not have a reference point that they can use to set those fees. They just appear to be setting the highest fees possible in order to prevent non-residents from using their lakes.

What you said is interesting. It's as if the municipalities do not see that they are depriving themselves of a certain kind of tourism by preventing people from fishing in their lakes. It is a little difficult to understand, but on the other hand, we know that residents living around the lakes are not interested in tourism. They want peace and quiet and they do not want people fishing on the lake in front of their cottage or their home. That's what is important to them. Tourism to their mind is secondary.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I would suspect then, sir, the people who own the land handy to the water have a pretty good impact on municipalities' political agenda and that is creating quite a problem for tourism. I can see where it would be a place where government would have to make some decisions for sure, and I can well understand what a negative effect it would have on tourists, as you've said.

On the catch and release program, and also the stocking of lakes, I'd like you to expand on that. Has the stocking of lakes been very successful? How has it affected the stock of native fish in the lakes? Also, if you have time, could you expand on the catch and release program? Do you have figures on the mortality rate, or how successfully this is working?

[Michel Baril]

In Quebec, the practice of stocking fish is used for many purposes and is quite useful. Often, it simply serves to support a given fishery. For example, an outfitter who stocks certain lakes with brook trout will be able to attract more customers and lengthen the fishing season. This will have a positive impact on his business and his livelihood

In Quebec, the put-and-take approach to stocking fish is quite widespread and supports a high level of economic activity. I do not have any figures on that, but most outfitters use fish stocking one way or another.

Stocking is also useful to introduce species, or to reintroduce a species that had disappeared from lakes because of chemicals or for any other reason. In other cases, stocking ponds supports succession projects for young fishers. In Quebec, fish stocking serves many purposes.

When stocking takes place, certain problems may be detected. Provincial fish stocking guidelines allow us to properly manage the stocks. One cannot just stock any species, any way. The government monitors the state of fish farms and the way fish are farmed. The transportation and stocking of fish is managed so as to derive the greatest possible benefit. This approach allows us to avoid problems that may surface during stocking, for example introducing disease and parasites or disrupting the genetic chain of the fish population in any given lake.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. MacAulay.

Mr. Leef.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you for your presentation, Mr. Baril.

You mentioned in your opening remarks the memberships and the major economic impact of angling. You briefly touched on the highly populated areas in Quebec. I think what we tend to hear, and what we often assume, is that angling is very much a rural Canadian activity.

I would like you to have an opportunity to expand a little more on your comments about how important the economic value is to highly populated regions of your province and perhaps what the demographics of your membership look like in terms of city-based people participating in angling and outdoor pursuits and activities.

[Michel Baril]

I do not have a precise number showing how many people fish in each region, but we do indeed get the impression that fishing is mainly associated with rural regions. In fact, in any given large population, there will always be a certain percentage of sports fishing enthusiasts. Some of them for example, come from the area of Montreal, where over 3 million people live. They represent a large pool of fishers who then head to the regions to fish.

Many Montreal fishers will fish near Montreal because the river is a beautiful spot to fish. However, many of them leave the big cities to go fish in the country. The Montreal area has a population of over 3 million residents, of whom a few hundred thousand are fishers. When these people are getting ready to go fishing, they buy a truck, a boat or fishing equipment. Often, they will do that in their own area. Fishing-related purchases will therefore take place in Longueuil, Brossard and Laval. Fishing has a beneficial economic impact on the cities.

Following that, fishers will head out into the regions where they will spend even more money on lodging, meals and gas. So these other regions will also benefit economically from fishing.

As you can see, big cities also benefit from hunting and fishing. Quebec's biggest hunting and fishing stores are located in Quebec and Montreal, both major cities.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

You also mentioned that there's a projected future decline in the angling population. I think you were alluding to the fact that education is very important to make sure we don't lose a generation of people on the streams who can be our stewards of the land, observe the conservation efforts that are needed, prevent poaching. If you had a recommendation...?

How important is it, and what suggestion would you have, for provincial and federal governments to partner with associations like yours to improve and expand upon the necessary education to make sure we don't see a decline in the very important stewards we have out there on our lakes and rivers?

[Michel Baril]

We are convinced that this is still a marketing issue. The advisory committee on hunting and angling, of which our federation's president is a member, comes to mind. That committee was created in 2013 and came up with a few recommendations. One recommendation involved requesting that the federal government create major programs to promote the wildlife harvesting activities of hunting and fishing.

In Quebec, we work closely with the government to create certain programs that promote fishing. Doubtless, it would be useful for the advisory committee on hunting and angling to follow up on that recommendation and work with us on a promotion plan in order to reach out to fishers and convince the next generation to continue to fish and to embrace fishing as an outdoor activity.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

You've been at this business a long time and have been a major part of this. Do you recall a time in your past when provincial and federal governments have put so much attention on outdoor and angling pursuits with hunting and angling advisory panels? How important do you feel this is, that you and groups like your association have an opportunity to present your position to the federal government?

Is it just nice to have, or is it, in your mind, an essential opportunity for hunting and angling communities?

[Michel Baril]

In fact, we're honoured to be able to continue to work closely with the federal government on improving recreational fishing conditions in Canada. Our president, Mr. Latraverse, is a proud participant of the Hunting and Angling Advisory Panel. He is also happy to have the opportunity to communicate with the federal government to share the points of view and expectations of our federation, in addition to those of the fishers that we represent.

The opportunity to work with your government is important to us. It allows us to have direct contact with the federal government. We are convinced that, if the government follows up on the recommendations, it would quite simply improve the situation of the recreational fishing sector.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

You have a biology background. I'm just wondering what threats there are from your point of view in the province of Quebec or anywhere else in Canada that we need to be aware of from a biological perspective, and what opportunities we have. What benefits are we seeing from the point of view of biology that will allow growth in recreational angling opportunities in Canada?