Fisheries Committee on June 2nd, 2015

[Walter Regan]

Traditionally, the disposition rate for long-range sulphur in Nova Scotia was about 16 to 18 kilograms per hectare. After the Clean Air Act, and after a number of coal-fired plants shut down, right now the disposition rate, and it depends who you talk to, is about 12 kilograms per hectare. The carrying capacity of Nova Scotia soils in the southern upland is eight. Acid rain has never left. If acid rain stopped tomorrow, the soils are so depleted it would probably take 100 years minimum to come back to where it was pre-industrial. We need liming to get our rivers back to their proper pH to keep the fish in the river.

Heather.

[Heather Negus]

I would add it's the sustained liming we're doing through the doser that's going to help with that. We have tried other approaches that haven't had quite as much success, but if we're able to do it on more rivers in the southern upland, the benefit would obviously be greater. I think initial start-up costs for a liming project do seem quite large, but I think when we're talking about $30,000 a year to put lime into the river, the return on investment is there when we look at bringing those populations back.

[Walter Regan]

Don't forget that in Sweden and Norway, they're spending $20 million American a year, but with a five-year payback. We have 400 million fishermen who want to come here.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Yes. I'd like you to elaborate a bit on the stocking of the rivers. I can understand the problem. We stock the rivers. We create the smolts. We send them out and somebody else gets the value for what we produce. We seem to have no control over it. When you look at what's going on in Greenland, they can take possibly what we would think is five times the number of salmon they should. It's pretty difficult for us to tolerate that, but that's a global issue.

On stocking the rivers then, if you had a moment...I think you did allude to the open net concept in the salmon fishery, if you wish to elaborate on that a bit.

[Walter Regan]

It's an important tool from the hatcheries. It's very important, but it's just one tool. Today's stocking, with DNA and science involved, is not hit or miss, but it does keep the resident fish DNA alive in that particular river. If used properly, it's a real thing to bring good numbers back, but that's only part of it. It's only a tool. Keep in mind when I first started playing on the river, in the early 1990s, there were eight Atlantic salmon hatcheries. Today there are only two. We need DFO to get back into the game. DFO needs resources.

Now let's talk about the open net sewage system. We are allowing millions of fish to directly discharge raw sewage into our small bays where there's poor circulation. We're putting pesticides and we're putting food sources into the ocean that should not be there. I believe aquaculture is not sustainable and DFO should not be both a promoter and the regulator of the aquaculture. The open sewage pen has to come to an end.

Another thing I'll ask is, how can DFO put an exotic species on the west coast? They have allowed the introduction of Atlantic salmon that do not belong on the west coast. That's wrong.

Heather.

[Heather Negus]

I don't think I can follow that up.

Thank you, Walter.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you, Mr. MacAulay.

Mr. Weston.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Never was so much information imparted in such a short time. Thank you both.

I have a couple of short snappers. Heather, you mentioned an acronym: NSLC. I wasn't sure what that was.

[Heather Negus]

It's the title sponsor for the Adopt a Stream program. It's the Nova Scotia Liquor Corporation in the province that provides $100,000 annually for that program.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Okay, got it. Is the Clean Air Act the act John Fraser brought in that was supposed to have put an end to acid rain? Is that what you were referring to, Walter?

[Walter Regan]

I don't know who brought it in for the United States, but it was in the early 1990s. It's really effective. It's cutting down on acid rain, but it hasn't stopped acid rain.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Okay. That is disappointing. I know that was one of John Fraser's crowning achievements.

You both mentioned the partnership program. I was pleased to hear it has achieved desired results, or even exceeded best expectations. Can you elaborate on two or three ingredients of that program you think are effective and might be replicated in other DFO programs?

[Walter Regan]

First and foremost, the program exists. DFO is back in the game of giving funding for groups to do good work. That's very important. The program must continue. Please don't cut it off with a change of government.

The next thing is, it would help if the 50% matching was reduced. Some of the groups are having a hard time coming up with 50%—not all, but some.

We need more inspectors and habitat technicians on the river, because we have to apply after we have the training to do good work. Then the committee says yes or no, but DFO doesn't have the inspectors, doesn't have the staff. They've been cut back and slashed so badly. It would help to have more habitat specialists, especially ones that have a construction background, such as a professional engineer. That would be very helpful.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Heather, before I respond to Walter, do you have anything to add to that? I was looking for sort of best practices or best ingredients that might be replicated.

[Heather Negus]

I think that one of the things that Walter mentioned is important, looking at having the expertise for habitat restoration and the ability for them to lend that advice to partners of the Adopt a Stream program. It would be a critical piece of that, being able to give Adopt a Stream an extra resource to lean on when they need to train community groups and show them the things that they need to do to make that happen. I guess that's what I would add to that.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Let me start from a premise that government can never do enough, and we would all like to have more inspectors if we could afford them.

There was a fellow witness who spoke from Manitoba a couple of weeks ago who said that we can never have enough inspectors, never enough police, but that, if we encourage these partnerships, if we encourage recreational fishers on the ground to develop a culture where poaching is simply not tolerable in the community, and if we can encourage those people to help promote the best practices, then we may still not have enough inspectors, but we'll have gone a long way to helping the fish and promoting the fishery. What do you think of that?

[Walter Regan]

That's wonderful. It's like the stop smoking program. It took a generation, but it kicked in. It's effective today. It's the same with education; it's a long-term project.

It's very hard to get educational money from RFCPP because there's more habitat work to be done. It would be helpful to have an education section. It would be helpful if we had a promotion section, but again at the end of the day, you want square metres restored in the river.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Yes.

[Heather Negus]

I would basically say that I do agree with your premise, with what you're saying. I think that in Nova Scotia in the angling community we really do have that. They are good stewards of our fish and of our wild populations.

I think what we need is, as Walter said, better education as part of that fishing program.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

My colleague here, MP Bob Sopuck, who's one of the architects of this program, tells me that there have been two million square metres of habitat restored across Canada through the program, so it is promising.

I'm really intrigued by what you said, Walter, about the matching and that being a challenge. I can understand it's a challenge, but it is also one of the key features of it being a partnership, and the fact that the local group has to put up some of the money means that they've well considered what they're proposing, and the government can be more confident then about matching it.

Do you want to reflect on that part? I think one of the vital parts of the success is that there is a partnership and it's not a government program exclusively.

[Walter Regan]

That's why I said reduce the 50%. The qualification that has been driving some of the groups is that you're not allowed to put in matching federal money of any sort. It has to be non-federal money.

There are not that many grants out there that we can apply for. There are some corporations elsewhere, but the non-federal fund qualifier is a sticking point, like the green fund at Environment Canada. That would really help.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

I appreciate your input. Thank you very much, Heather and Walter.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rodney Weston]

Thank you very much, Mr. Weston.

On behalf of the committee, I'd like to say thank you to both of you for appearing today and taking the time to make presentations and to answer committee members' questions. We certainly do appreciate it as we consider the future of recreational fisheries in Canada. At this time I'd like to say thank you on behalf of the entire committee.

There being no further business, this committee stands adjourned.