Fisheries Committee on May 22nd, 2018

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Madam Chair, of course, had Mr. Donnelly's amendment NDP-26 been shorter, I might have lost a chance to try to get at this one again.

The idea here is to ensure that as we're looking at the regulation-making powers of the minister, we see that the minister may indeed pass regulations, make regulations, conservation measures, emergency measures of all kinds, prohibit fishing of one or more species, prohibit the type of certain fishing gear, and so on.

My amendment provides an opportunity for a government of a province or a governing indigenous body to request of the minister that such regulations to prohibit fishing of one or more species, populations, assemblies, or stocks of fish might be taken, and the minister must respond to such a request from a provincial government or indigenous governing body within 90 days, and with reasons.

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Liberal, Bernadette Jordan]

CPC-20 also is deleted.

(Clause 32 agreed to on division)

(Clauses 33 to 39 inclusive agreed to on division)

(On clause 40)

We have LIB-10. If LIB-10 is adopted, LIB-11 cannot be moved as there is a line conflict.

Mr. Rogers.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Madam Chair, we're suggesting the removal of paragraph (e). Other than that, we move the amendment as presented. This is in keeping with amendments that we put forward for Bill C-69.

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Liberal, Bernadette Jordan]

We're on NDP-27. If it is adopted...well, LIB-11 cannot be moved now anyway.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Madam Chair, this just protects traditional knowledge.

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Liberal, Bernadette Jordan]

My apologies, I made a mistake earlier. Because (e) was removed, LIB-11 can be moved at this time. I apologize for that.

The vote on LIB-11 applies to LIB-13. They are consequential.

Mr. Hardie.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

This basically introduces the requirement for the minister to consult before releasing information provided by indigenous communities, particularly disclosing certain information that may be sensitive in that community.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bernadette Jordan]

Is there any discussion on LIB-11?

Mr. Arnold.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Madam Chair, I'm wondering how this is going to affect project proponents who may have their project denied without finding out why. They could end up doing, I guess, a big Ping-Pong battle back and forth, reapplying without knowing why they were denied the first time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bernadette Jordan]

Are you asking the officials?

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I guess the officials would be the first people to ask.

[Nicholas Winfield]

The minister must provide the reasons for his decision in terms of issuing or not issuing an authorization.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

But he's not allowed to disclose the indigenous knowledge.

[Nicholas Winfield]

If that indigenous knowledge has been protected, then that knowledge cannot be shared.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

As I say, proponents may never know why their project was denied.

Is that correct?

[Nicholas Winfield]

I can't answer that, because it depends what information has been shared with the proponent. The minister must protect the information provided by indigenous people. The minister may have other reasons for rejecting a project, and he would give his reasons.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bernadette Jordan]

Mr. Hardie.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Madam Chair, perhaps the staff could give us a practical example of why the minister would choose to protect information provided by the indigenous community.

[Nicholas Winfield]

A key example would be where there are traditional uses of lands and resources by indigenous people. It could be a sacred site. It could be an area used for traditional purposes for fishing, the location of which indigenous people do not wish to disclose.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bernadette Jordan]

Mr. Arnold.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

To the officials, would a proponent be provided with any indication as to why a proposed project was disallowed if the indigenous knowledge was deemed not available for disclosure?

[Nicholas Winfield]

I'm struggling to give any more information than I have already.

The minister must provide the reasons for his decision. If there are issues related to traditional knowledge that relate back to the fishery, the minister cannot disclose the specifics of that information, but he could provide a general response as to why he made a decision to oppose a project.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bernadette Jordan]

Mr. Miller, go ahead.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

I'm not sure if Mr. Arnold is done.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Not quite, I'm sorry.

Would the information provided by the minister to the proponent be anything more than the decision was based on undisclosable indigenous knowledge?