Fisheries Committee on Oct. 25th, 2018

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you.

Thank you, all. I am very pleased to be here, sitting on the fisheries committee.

Certainly I want to thank all the witnesses here today. As you know, this was a motion that I put forward. Particularly for Melanie, Bonnie and Maria, living on the Bay of Fundy, this is a really personal one.

Certainly when we saw the one whale that was entangled in the herring weir over by the lighthouse in 2016, that was one of those ones that I thought could have been prevented. Again, it was a fisherman who stepped in and dropped the twine.

One of the other messages I just want to put forward is to thank everyone here, as stakeholders, at this table, because we can't do this without you. A clear message I heard throughout when I was gaining support and asking people regarding the motion was the need for consultation. Clearly that is a common theme that I have today—the need for further consultation—because you are just as much an important partner in what happens with the right whale as the scientists and as DFO as well.

I'm going to get started.

When we look at the measures that have been put in place, one of the things I've heard is that there wasn't a lot of notice regarding the measures. That's something I would actually like to delve into more deeply, listening to your experiences with the measures that were introduced for the protection in this particular area of the North Atlantic right whale. How could that have been done differently? I ask that one of all of you.

The other one is specifically with Bonnie and Melanie. Could you explain further the work you've done, first, from 2006 where there were no right whale incidents in terms of death, and second, the work you've recently had approved for your pilot project?

Thank you.

[Melanie Sonnenberg]

I'll let Bonnie take the work that we've done, and we can work backwards to your first question.

[Bonnie Morse]

A little bit about our pilot project is that we had a meeting with our fishermen earlier this fall. The solutions came from the fishermen, and I think that's really important to remember, that they were the ones who developed this.

They went to the department and we asked for things to be included in our conditions. They include that we will limit the amount of distance between trawls, so that limits the amount of rope in the water. We have put a limit on the amount of rope on the surface, the trailing rope between the main buoy and the secondary buoy that they use to gaff the trawls. In trawls that are fished in deeper water—in more than 30 fathoms of waters, we're using 65-fathom end lines, which is about average in that area—they're putting in a section of weak rope that will break if there is an entanglement, so it would reduce the risk of entanglement.

I always get caught up on the fourth one....

[Melanie Sonnenberg]

Maximum distance between....

[Bonnie Morse]

It's the maximum distance. They're doing a minimum number of traps on the end line, so they have to have a minimum number of traps per trawl.

The second feature of what they're doing is looking at a watch and warning system, so that if we see one whale, as we did this spring, fishermen will automatically drop the floating line, the trailing line that's on the surface. It will eliminate that immediately out of the water. If a whale is sighted for a second time, particularly in the critical habitat, they will double the minimum number of traps on their trawls so it will further reduce the amount of line in the water.

We are still working on some other measures. There has been discussion about other things that we'd like to do, but this, we feel, is a really good first step to allow us to at least continue to fish in a situation like we had this spring with one whale being sighted.

[Melanie Sonnenberg]

I will just add to it. I think—to go back to Karen's question—in terms of the pilot project, it came from fishermen, but I think one of the things I'd like to suggest to the committee is that the department and the industry need to be agile to deal with these whales, because we don't have a timeline of when they're coming and when they're going. I think we've all learned to be a little more agile, but I would like to see the department be more agile in the way in which it responds.

Some of the delays we felt this winter, when we couldn't really get a keen sense of what was going to happen, dragged on for quite a while, and some of it was because it was such a sharp learning curve for everybody.

We have an example where we would like to do something that the regulation won't allow us to do, and we need to work with the department to get out of the box that confines us. If fishermen want to take an end line down, which is a reduction of vertical lines in the water, then we have to get beyond the regulatory measure that constrains us from doing that.

I put that forward as an example. I know the department is frustrated as well, and we're looking for solutions, but regulatory change takes time, as you are all very well aware, so I put that forward.

In terms of the time question, Karen, I think these gentlemen here from the gulf are in a better position to talk about that question.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you.

[Carl Allen]

As far as the consultation leading up to our fishery, I'm going to speak to the lobster fishery first off and foremost. I'll leave it to Martin to talk more about the crab fishery. In the lobster fishery, there was zero consultation going into the spring fishery. The North Atlantic right whale round table was last year in November. We all know it focused on the snow crab fishery, because it was snow crab gear the whales were entangled in. Traditionally we fish lobsters inside the 120 line, inside 120 feet of water, and when you look at the historical data of the North Atlantic right whales, which have been in the gulf long before 2017, you see they very seldom, if ever, venture into that shallow water, because the feed is more out in the deeper water.

We went all winter thinking that we were kind of.... I don't want to say off the hook, but we weren't given any indication that we would be part of the mitigation measures. About two weeks before our fishery started, we started to get a bit of a sniff of wind that—wait a minute—it's not just the crab fishery that's going to be implicated in all of this. It's also going to be the lobster fishery and all other fixed-gear fisheries.

Then our conditions came out about 10 days before the fishery, maybe a week before. That's the other part of the issue. This whole year the timeliness of conditions being released to us has been a nightmare. I mean everything and all species. One prime example is our mackerel gillnet fishery, where my harvesters received their condition 12 hours before they started fishing. You try to plan for a fishery with 12 hours' notice.

[The Chair]

Thank you, Mr. Allen. I apologize for cutting you off but I'm trying to give each party a chance to ask some questions.

We'll move over to the Conservative Party and Mr. Doherty.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Thank you.

My questions are going to be rapid-fire, but I want to give each member an opportunity. I really appreciate your being here. I apologize for the vote. Sadly, it was on the 50th or 51st time of closure on debate that the government had levied on us. Similar to you industry people not being able to have a word, the opposition doesn't always get a chance to go into debate either.

To my colleague, Ms. Ludwig, welcome to the fisheries committee—

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

—where consultation is just a word and not really an action. It's something that they dreamt of and hopefully someday we can achieve it.

Mr. Haché, how much consultation has been given with your industry?

[Robert Haché]

Basically, there was very little consultation in November.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Mallet, very little as well?

[Martin Mallet]

Very little, but for lobster, none.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Allen, I know your points are very well made.

[Melanie Sonnenberg]

We consult amongst ourselves in the Bay of Fundy. I think therein lies the difference. We have not waited for government to weigh in since 2006, and we've continued that dialogue with our colleagues in district 36.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Lansbergen, what about your membership?

[Paul Lansbergen]

For the right whale, we're being supplied by the fishermen here, so I'll leave it to them.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

One question comes to mind. This gear that is causing the entanglement, can we tell whether it's from a Canadian industry or a foreign industry?

[Robert Haché]

In the southern Gulf of St. Lawrence, it's Canadian industry according to the numbers we had last year. You have to understand that there were two or three entanglements, and there were six or seven caused by ship strikes.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Ms. Recchia, how much has your organization been consulted?

[Maria Recchia]

We were consulted very little, especially when all of this started. There was the minister's round table that we weren't invited to. In the consultations before, sometimes we found out things on Facebook and not from the government itself. So that's a big....

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

With respect to the foreign fishing, are our U.S. counterparts facing the same restrictions as our Canadian industry?

[Carl Allen]

When you look at the U.S. MMPA, there is a lot of stuff that the American fishing industry is starting to face, but the largest trap fishery there is the Maine lobster fishery and the Maine lobster fishermen are still fighting over all of this. They're not even compliant and they're out there the year around, which means the whales have got to run the gauntlet going in both directions.