Fisheries Committee on Nov. 1st, 2018

[The Chair, Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)]

Good morning, everyone. Pursuant to order of reference of Wednesday, June 6, 2018, this is a study on the situation of endangered whales, motion M-154.

I'll start off by apologizing to our witnesses who have been here waiting. We had an unexpected vote which delayed us.

With the permission of the committee, what I would like to do, instead of losing a full half-hour to the first group, is shave 15 minutes off each one. We'll go until 12:15 p.m. and then switch to the second group and go until 1 p.m.

Does anybody have a problem with that? Is that okay?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair]

Perfect.

First of all, I'd like to welcome our witnesses for today.

Mr. Ray Harris, Co-Chair of the First Nations Summit, is here in person.

By video conference, from the Tsleil-Waututh Nation, we have Gabriel George, Manager of Culture and Language; and Spencer Taft, Project Manager, Cumulative Effects.

Again by video conference, we have Teresa Ryan, Post-Doctoral Research Fellow, Forest and Conservation Sciences, University of British Columbia, as an individual.

Welcome to all of you.

We'll start with the statements.

Mr. Harris, you're up first for seven minutes or less, please.

[Ray Harris, Co-Chair, First Nations Summit]

[Witness speaks in Hul'qumi'num]

Thank you so much for inviting me to be here.

I had a wonderful flight last night and I hope to fly back soon.

We're all very concerned about the whale that we're talking about, the southern whale in our waters that we share with the Salish Sea. Most of you would have your own thoughts about the whale, but I want to give you a bit of mine and some of our people's thinking and our intimate relationship with the whale.

We have a long relationship with the whale. We have many ceremonies, traditions and customs of our people that revolve around our relationship with the whale. It's a spiritual relationship that is hard to describe. I don't want to describe it to you, but I want to let you know that we have this wonderful relationship with the whale. We have songs and dances to celebrate with the whale. We have songs and dances for when we call upon the whale to help us in times of need.

The whale is closely described by our people, as it was told to me, that at the start of creation, before the beings were set up in a hierarchy, we were similar to the whale, so similar that they still breathed air like us. They raise their young and they look after their young for generations. They have extended families that they use to look after each other, which is the same as us. They eat the same food as we do. We're so close to them in those descriptions that we're worried.

We also face the same thing as the whale. We're near extinction. We can honestly say that we know how it feels. We're expressing what the whale is expressing.

A couple of months ago, we got heartfelt messages from around the world regarding the mother whale that held on to her young for some 17 days or more. They were concerned about a loss. There were two losses recorded, but particularly, the mother whale, as our people look at it as a message that we need to share with the world. Something has gone wrong and we need to call upon each and every one of you to help us. Each and every scientist, each and every community, each and every fisherman needs to help us look after the whale, so that the whales can recover in the Salish Sea.

We're so concerned that we're making journeys like this to speak to strangers all over the world to make the effort, so that you know that we love the whale and we want to ask for your help and assistance. We can point fingers here and there and everywhere, but responsibilities have been taken by departments, like the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. They fell down on the job, in terms of the habitat and the responsibility they have for looking after the salmon in the Salish Sea. You need to know that.

We're worried about the term that's being used by Transport Canada that describes the way the oceans are now when tankers are moving here and there. I forget the term, but it includes the territory of our people.

For your information, as colonizing happened and reserves were being set up, as they hit the west coast, the tribes got small, little reserves, small, little plots of land. To justify that, they said that the tribes relied on the sea for all their needs. In fact, some of those reserves are called fishing stations, so we can access the seas and the beaches, the clam gardens. There's more reliance now on our traditional foods than ever, so we need to be mindful of that.

It's the same as the whale. You hear now and then that the whale is starving to death. Can you imagine, on the west coast of Canada, the west coast of British Columbia, that something is starving to death? It's horrible.

That's why I came here today, to talk to you and tell you about us. We're worried about the scientists. They kind of favour industry. We see there's pull and push on the scientific community, and we lose, and the whale loses.

In your deliberations, as time goes on, I beg you to be mindful of whose interest is being served by all this data, the mountains of data that are going to come at you.

The last thing I would say is that the availability of prey for the whale is of utmost concern. It will take hard decisions to satisfy that. You can satisfy it today by eliminating some of the competition the whale has for the prey, but it's a tough decision, a political decision. It's a tough one, and if you need help with that, we'll help you.

[The Chair]

Thank you, Mr. Harris. Anything that you feel you didn't have a chance to say, hopefully in the rounds of questioning, you'll be able to add at that time.

Next up, from the Tsleil-Waututh Nation, we have Mr. George and Mr. Taft.

I don't know if only one of you is speaking or if you're splitting your time, but either way, whenever you're ready, you're good for seven minutes or less, please.

[Gabriel George, Manager, Culture and Language, Tsleil-Waututh Nation]

[Witness speaks in Hul'qumi'num]

It's my pleasure to be here today at the behest of my nation to talk about something that's very important to our family. In our language, Tsleil-Waututh [Witness speaks in Hul'qumi'num], we call ourselves the people of the inlet, and it refers to the Burrard Inlet. Our family has been on these shores for thousands of years. My late grandfather talked about our hunting trails that today are known as Robson Street and Thurlow Street, where we used to hunt for deer.

We've seen huge impacts to our lands and to the environment. One of our [Witness speaks in Hul'qumi'num] is my [Witness speaks in Hul'qumi'num], my great, great, great-grandfather, [Witness speaks in Hul'qumi'num]. He could talk to the ones that lived in the water, to the fish, to the killer whale and to all the creatures that lived in the water. When he passed away, he was laid to rest on a little island, [Witness speaks in Hul'qumi'num]. Just across from that main village is an island. Today, they call it Boulder Island. The area I'm talking about is Belcarra. That island eventually became private and they said we had to move our [Witness speaks in Hul'qumi'num], our respected leader—we had to remove his remains from there. They paddled him to where our reserve is now [Witness speaks in Hul'qumi'num]. Two killer whales went beside the canoe and escorted him to where our reserve is—Burrard Inlet 3, Indian reserve. Then, when they brought him up the trail to our cemetery, the killer whales didn't go under. They didn't turn around. They backed out of Burrard Inlet. Our word for Burrard Inlet is [Witness speaks in Hul'qumi'num]. That's where we get our name, Tsleil-Waututh.

The elders said they never came back. For many years they didn't come into our waters. In the last 10 years or so, maybe a little more, we've had the odd sighting. When we lose important people, they seem to come in. To our people, they're a barometer of many things. The killer whales disappeared like my elder Ray just said. That's how we almost died off, and the killer whales disappeared at that time. They're starting to come back. I don't think it's a coincidence that they're coming back at a time when our voice is being heard more. When people are listening to us a little more, they're coming back again.

To us the killer whale is a barometer of the environment, of our spiritual health and our physical health. We don't separate all these things, the rocks, the plants, the animals. We consider ourselves all one part of that. It's a more holistic approach that even western education is starting to recognize and value.

So, it's up to us, and that's why I'm here today at the behest of my nation to plead with you, like our dear elder put so well, to do the best we can to protect the killer whales, to protect [Witness speaks in Hul'qumi'num], what we call it in our language, to look after them.

It means so much to our family and to our health. In our community, the languages were wiped out in one generation from the residential schools. We're working hard to bring that back. When I look at the whole history of my people, I see it all coming together through one thing, through this killer whale. It's all connected in our world view, in the way we see things and the way our old people see things.

Like my dear elder Ray had expressed, I express to you to consider qullhanumucun in your work.

I'm going to turn it over to my colleague Spencer at this time.

[Witness speaks in Hul'qumi'num]

[Spencer Taft, Project Manager, Cumulative Effects, Tsleil-Waututh Nation]

Thank you, Gabe, for that, and thank you for touching on the relationship between the Tsleil-Waututh and the killer whales. Obviously it's a topic that warrants much further discussion and exploration, but in these time limits, this is what we'll present. I'll get right into our specific recommendations to the committee.

We have outlined four specific recommendations. They're included in the written submission, so you can follow along.

The first one is that the federal government consult and engage with indigenous groups to amend the definition of “critical habitat” under the Species at Risk Act to consider continued indigenous cultural use. We've provided an example of proposed language to that effect.

The second recommendation is that the federal government base southern resident killer whale critical habitat on pre-contact or pre-industrial environmental conditions as opposed to current environmental conditions, because we truly believe that only maintaining habitat that's currently suitable for the resident killer whales will maintain only current population trends, which we all know are quite dire.

In accordance with the first two recommendations, our third recommendation is to designate Burrard lnlet and the Fraser River estuary as critical habitat for the southern resident killer whale so that it's connected and continuous with the rest of the critical habitat in the Salish Sea.

Our fourth recommendation is really a point of support. We want to express that Tsleil-Waututh supports the additions to the southern resident killer whale critical habitat put forth in DFO's amended recovery strategy for the killer whale, which came out earlier this year.

Those are the four specific points that we wanted to recommend to the committee with respect to Tsleil-Waututh's concerns around the killer whales.

[The Chair]

Thank you, gentlemen.

We'll now go to Ms. Ryan for seven minutes or less, please.

[Dr. Teresa Ryan, Post-doctoral Research Fellow, Forest and Conservation Sciences, University of British Columbia, As an Individual]

Good morning.

[Witness speaks in Sm'algyax]

My name is Sm'hayetsk, Dr. Teresa Ryan. I am Tsimshian, from the north coast of British Columbia. I presently live in Vancouver and am employed as a post-doctoral research fellow at the University of British Columbia in forest and conservation sciences. My training is in fisheries aquatic ecology. I'm also appointed by Canada to the Pacific Salmon Commission's Joint Chinook Technical Committee. I'm the first northwest aboriginal person appointed to both of these roles.

I've had opportunities to participate in a variety of sessions for southern resident killer whales, including two out of three in the bilateral Canada DFO-U.S.A. NOAA series of workshops on prey availability for southern resident killer whales. I wasn't able to attend the third workshop because the AAROM funding was not available in the next fiscal year.

I also work at the port of Vancouver enhancing cetacean habitat and observation, ECHO, program, along with my colleague Ray Harris. I was the first nations panel chair at the Government of Canada symposium on southern resident killer whales. I've worked at UBC on the availability of prey for southern resident killer whales and at the Prince Rupert first annual whale festival, and I am on the Fisheries and Oceans Canada Pacific region indigenous and multi-stakeholder advisory committee, which is meeting at this moment.

My research interests have focused on the application of ancestral knowledge systems in resource management. I have several years of experience along Canada's west coast in fisheries—

I'm sorry. Would you like me to slow down?

[The Chair]

No, go ahead.

[Dr. Teresa Ryan]

I have several years of experience in fisheries and forestry resource management. I also work with the Assembly of First Nations in Ottawa on ACCAE and the First Nations Advisory Committee on Species at Risk.

I prefer the term “aboriginal” versus “indigenous” because etymologically, the source of the term “aboriginal” means “from within”, which is more consistent with an aboriginal world view. The term “aboriginal” is also consistently used in Canada's legislation, including in section 35 of the Constitution, where ancestral knowledge systems are protected as aboriginal rights.

Northern and southern resident killer whales are an intrinsic component in aboriginal cultures and continue to be revered as iconic and majestic. They are part of our clans. Gispwudwada and Tsimshian are clans. We have a clan that is entirely killer whale. Our naming system has killer whales within it. It tells us the story of our relationship to killer whales and provides an identity.

They're an indicator of health for the Pacific Ocean ecosystems and provide us with an indication of our future human health.

Resident killer whales and humans rely on the same food sources—chinook and other salmon—and we are witnessing killer whales starve to death. Chinook salmon has special significance to first nations in British Columbia as a food source and as part of the legacy of first nations cultures, including their connection to killer whales.

Ancient aboriginal fishing technology, such as the use of stone tidal salmon traps, captured high volumes of fish. I'm presently working on a project to test these stone traps to see if we can use them to rebuild salmon populations. Our technology has been evidenced by archeology as existing more than 5,000 years ago. Our longevity working with these species is a record that speaks for itself.

We also made sure there was consistency in the size and abundance of resources, which was much different in the past from what it is now. We relied on large salmon, and we actually made sure that those large salmon made it up to the spawning grounds.

Some of the large salmon that killer whales depend on are the Babine stocks of the Skeena River system, the Elwha chinook of the Juan de Fuca Strait, and the Columbia River June hogs. Those are very large salmon. The Elwha stocks are in recovery after the removal of two dams. That's a very large fish that likely was a dominant source of food for southern resident killer whales. The Columbia River June hogs were extirpated because they couldn't get past the hydro power dams on the Columbia River.

In the past, our strategies incorporated allowing the largest fish and female fish to pass through to escapement, facilitating consistent quality of reproductive success for larger fish.

Today, many U.S. tribes are working to restore salmon. First nations in Canada would also like to work to restore salmon populations for a variety of reasons, including providing salmon for the resident killer whales.

I was able to participate in a technical team of scientists and review of status for southern B.C. chinook stocks. We observed that a couple of stocks indicated an unexpected status in forested areas recently disturbed by the mountain pine beetle. In our discussion, we realized that DFO did not have adequate resources to pursue a research investigation on the effects of forestry operations on watersheds.

We are keenly aware that forests are being clear-cut at exorbitant rates in many areas of the province. At present, there is an operation in Tsitika watershed on Vancouver Island that may be causing harm to Robson Bight with increased sedimentation and other impacts. Robson Bight is a belly rub peat for resident killer whales.

We know that there is also tremendous risk of oil spills. Here's an example. There are two ecotypes—those are genetically and behaviourally different groups of killer whales—known in Cook Inlet, Alaska. There is a resident pod, AB, and population of transient killer whales, AT1. Killer whales of both ecotypes died during the Exxon Valdez oil spill in 1989. The AB pod is showing slow recovery but is still below their pre-spill number. The AT1 population is functionally extirpated with seven remaining individuals, including two females that are beyond reproductive capacity. That's a concern for us on this coast given the changes we see coming down the road.

When we work with government, we have opportunities to capitalize on some momentum and address those areas where we have capacity shortage. We know we want to help restore salmon, but we also want to do it in a manner that's consistent with our world view.

The government symposium on southern resident killer whales resulted in a report that lists some specific outcomes and recommendations, identifying the Fraser River as a primary source of chinook for southern resident killer whales. We know that we want to engage first nations stewardship and the annual chinook salmon assessment. We need to figure out how to get that. We need to find those mechanisms to actually build the capacity that first nations need in order to participate in a joint effort.

[The Chair]

The seven minutes are up, Ms. Ryan. We have actually gone over quite a bit. I would hope that anything you didn't have to say in your opening statement will come out in the line of questioning.

With that, we will go first to the government side.

Mr. Hardie, you have seven minutes or less, please.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

If anybody hasn't had a chance to get their full piece in, you can submit it in writing, and it goes into the record so we can consider that as we go forward and make recommendations.

We've been hearing from a lot of people. Although the person who put forward this motion is from the east coast, she wisely included the southern resident killer whale as part of the study because she understood this was important and there were some dangers afoot.

So far we've heard the following: The availability of chinook salmon, the primary food source, is in trouble. There's ship traffic, especially noise, and it's not so much ship strikes on the west coast, which is more of an issue on the east coast. This is what we've heard. You can correct me if I'm wrong. There are toxins in the water, and there's the impact of seals and sea lions, which have had a significant increase in population.

Have we missed anything so far? Are there other factors? Raise your hand if you have something to contribute to this question. Have we missed anything that we should be looking at?

Ray, do you want to start?

[Ray Harris]

You might have covered it in terms of the noise, but that's a huge factor. Industries such as whale watching, BC Ferries or the ferry system and tanker traffic, I think should be looked at individually rather than lumped together. In terms of the noise, that's a recommendation.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you for that.

Is there anybody else who wants to answer? Is there anything we have missed looking at?

[Spencer Taft]

I would have something to add.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Go ahead, sir.

[Spencer Taft]

It's really important to consider the long-term cumulative effects of changes in the aquatic ecosystems, for example, especially in a highly urban and developed area like Vancouver and Burrard Inlet.

Herring as a mid-level forage fish used to be incredibly abundant in Burrard Inlet. In 1882, a commercial herring fishery was opened by early European settlers. They primarily fished with dynamite. They would see a school of herring, throw dynamite in the water and scoop the herring out, so by 1898 herring were totally extirpated from Burrard Inlet and never came back.

For one thing, the archeological record shows that in some parts of Burrard Inlet herring made up upwards of 50% of the Tsleil-Waututh fish diet. As well, it's an incredibly important food source for chinook salmon and chum salmon and the things the whales eat.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you for that. I will have to intercept here because, unfortunately, we all have a limited amount of time to ask questions, and there's one I really need to get in.

We've flagged herring, particularly in Burrard Inlet. Thank you for that. On seals and sea lions, there seems to be a split opinion as to whether or not we need to apply some remedies there. If we do, is it just in spot locations where they are being very opportunistic versus something a little broader and more general?

Are there any more thoughts on that?

Ray, we will start with you.

[Ray Harris]

Just for your information, I do commercial fishing. My boys and I have two boats. We fish the whole coast, and it's changed in the last couple of years from where you hardly saw any seals or sea lions to not being able to get away from them. There are numerous sea lions and seals.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

What should we do about that?

[Ray Harris]

There needs to be a cull. It's a hard decision that somebody has to make, but it looks like there's no other answer.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Maybe we can refer that to the others.

Ms. Ryan, do you any thoughts on that?

[Dr. Teresa Ryan]

Yes, [Technical difficulty—Editor]

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

I'm sorry. We can't hear you.