Evidence of meeting #116 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was whales.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Post-doctoral Research Fellow, Forest and Conservation Sciences, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
I'm sorry. There we go.
The seal and sea lion populations are out of control, and they're having a tremendous impact on juvenile survival. We have numbers that we haven't seen maybe ever. The whole ecosystem is out of balance. There needs to be a cull coast-wide. There needs to be a very strategic approach in looking at how to do that effectively.
Liberal
Ken Hardie Liberal Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Okay.
We did hear other testimony which suggested that the transient population might come in and help take care of that. We would have to be very careful whatever we did, because we wouldn't want to harm that group.
On the impact of aquaculture, I'm thinking again specifically of the chinook.
Are there any reflections on that from anybody?
Again, I'll go back to you, Dr. Ryan.
Post-doctoral Research Fellow, Forest and Conservation Sciences, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
We do know a lot of science background behind aquaculture. We do need to do more. We need to be clear on whether or not there are impacts between wild and farmed fish. We need to just get the question answered, in particular for juvenile salmon.
We need to have the support systems for the Pacific region and for our first nations to understand if there's an impact on the juvenile survival of salmon in proximity to these net pens that are in a migratory pathway. We need to identify whether we should be mitigating the location of siting, working with the province to remove sites from migratory pathways for juvenile salmon.
We need answers to those questions quickly.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Hardie.
Now to the Conservative side, Mr. Arnold, please, for seven minutes or less.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I thank all of the witnesses for being available today. This is a very important study for both coasts—actually all three coasts. The study refers to right whales, beluga whales, blue whales and killer whales, but I think it can be applied to all whales right around the country.
Mr. Harris, you talked about the history and culture of your first nation. What I questioned the other day with some of the testimony was the population numbers, whether there had been any targets set. I'm wondering if there's an indication of what those historical population numbers were.
Co-Chair, First Nations Summit
There was, in our time, a comfortable number that we never had to worry about. Was there a decline? It never came into our thinking that there was a decline in the numbers. We don't have accurate, scientific, one, two, three numbers or those kinds of things. We didn't worry about it. We knew that they were healthy.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Has anybody discussed what potential target numbers should be for those populations of southern resident or any of those different subspecies of the killer whale?
Co-Chair, First Nations Summit
I think some are talking about historical numbers. I'm not quite sure whose history they're thinking about, but we're not getting any closer to the comfort level from our feeling.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Okay, thank you.
Something else that's been lightly touched on, but I don't think we've looked at closely enough, is the impact of waste-water discharges around some of the larger communities. Have those been a concern to the first nations as well?
Co-Chair, First Nations Summit
They're very much of concern.
Victoria as a city may be working on a treatment centre for their sewage disposal this year, but up until now, since the beginning of Victoria, it has been discharged. There's no treatment centre for the sewage disposal. Some other places, such as the little town of Ladysmith, do the same thing. There's very little treatment, and they discharge. There are three areas on the Fraser River in the Vancouver area that are causing concern about what is being discharged. We don't really know.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you.
This is a bit of a touchy subject, but I'm sometimes known for being overly honest and up front. In one of my previous roles, I was in discussions with a first nations chief from Vancouver Island in which we talked about the traditional harvest of whales. They haven't harvested whales for a number of years, for a multitude of reasons, but in that conversation the chief asked me how I or my organization, as a conservation organization, would feel about their potential harvest of whales in the future.
It was a challenging question to me, but I'm going to pose to all three groups of witnesses here this morning the question of your positions on the traditional harvest of whales. I don't mean killer whales—I don't know whether anyone harvested killer whales. Have there been traditional whale harvests in any of your organizations?
Co-Chair, First Nations Summit
Maybe I could start it off.
Conservation is a primary thought that we have. At this point in time, that's the direction of our thinking. Maybe in a distant past when there was plenty, we wouldn't have hesitated to participate.
Conservative
Post-doctoral Research Fellow, Forest and Conservation Sciences, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
Yes, I would like to.
The whale harvesting on the Pacific coast was done primarily by the Nuu-chah-nulth and the Haida groups. They hunted for grey whales. There isn't a group anywhere on the coast that hunted killer whales at all. There were one or two groups that might have chased them off, in river, but there was no hunting of killer whales.
To hunt for grey whales is an aboriginal right. It is still part of a cultural tradition and a source of food for communities. I participated in the Makah celebration at Neah Bay after their successful hunt in, I believe, the mid-1990s.
Yes, then, there is hunting. It is a part of traditions that were a part of the cultural world view before colonialism.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you.
Would each of you like to make any comment on your traditional harvest of competing predators, such as seals and sea lions? Were those part of your traditional harvests as well?
November 1st, 2018 / 12:05 p.m.
Post-doctoral Research Fellow, Forest and Conservation Sciences, University of British Columbia, As an Individual
I'll go first.
Yes. In fact, seal meat tastes really good, and so does smoked sea lion meat. I quite enjoy them. It is still a continuing tradition for us up on the north coast, most certainly. I know that there are groups around Vancouver Island who also participate in the harvesting of seal and sea lion meat for food purposes.
Actually, it was a part of the economy, in fact. There are dollar values associated with the exchange of seals and sea lions in the early colonial records.
Conservative
Manager, Culture and Language, Tsleil-Waututh Nation
Yes, our Tsleil-Waututh people were renowned seal hunters. It's been a while since anyone in our families hunted seals for food and traditional food use, but we were renowned for seal hunting.
Liberal
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank all of our witnesses for being here and for providing testimony on today's topic.
We're talking about how to help these threatened and endangered whales. Specifically, on the west coast, we're talking about the southern resident killer whale. They were first listed 15 years ago. We've seen not a lot of action on behalf of the government in the last 15 years. It's now coming to a point where we have 74 resident killer whales left. They're starving. Our scientists say that food or prey and noise and pollution are the main cause.
One bit of information is that in 1997, I received a name from the Squamish Nation, Iyem Yewyews, which means “killer whale”. It's a name that I wear with pride. It's also a big responsibility because it really focuses on the work that I was doing with salmon.
The government wants to protect killer whales, but it also wants to dramatically increase oil tanker traffic in the Salish Sea, in Burrard Inlet specifically. Since our scientists have recognized noise as one key issue threatening the killer whale, and the fact that the port of Vancouver is a very busy harbour, I'm wondering if I could ask our Tsleil-Waututh representatives to talk about what impact increased tanker traffic could have on these threatened killer whales.
Project Manager, Cumulative Effects, Tsleil-Waututh Nation
Yes, absolutely. It's a major concern for Tsleil-Waututh. We're currently commissioning and working with experts—whale experts, acoustic ecologists and people who study southern resident killer whales—to better understand the impacts of increased tankers in Burrard Inlet and in the Salish Sea on the southern resident killer whales specifically, as well as the environment in general.
Unfortunately, in this short period I don't know how specific I can get. We're developing a better understanding of the impacts, but it's something that we would absolutely invite further engagement in. We would happily discuss and share the results of our findings as we get them. We're expecting these reports within the coming weeks. It's work that's currently under way.
Generally, the impacts of marine shipping affects communication among the whales. Specifically, the southern resident killer whales hunt by echolocation. It's like sonar—like bats or animals like that. The sound disrupts both the communication among whales and their hunting techniques.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC
Thank you, Mr. Taft. I appreciate your four recommendations. I would suggest that if you have further recommendations, for instance, on the oil tanker project or anything else that you think is relevant, you submit it to this committee for our consideration.
Mr. Harris, thank you for being here and for providing your testimony in person. You spoke about the spiritual connection to the whales for your people. You specifically mentioned the mother who carried her dead calf for those many days. You called on the government. You mentioned that DFO, or the government, has fallen down on the job in terms of protecting salmon.
I have two questions. What would it mean for your culture and your people to lose the whale? What do you recommend the government or this committee do to protect whales?