Fisheries Committee on Nov. 1st, 2018

[Adam Burns]

The consideration that would need to be undertaken there, in terms of the precautionary principle, is that it would go in both directions in terms of also needing to take into account the risks that a population reduction of harbour seals would potentially pose to other whale populations. That's not to say the ultimate decision couldn't be that there be a population control measure for harbour seals, but it would need to be taken in the broader context of the suite of measures that's being undertaken for chinook.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

But, sir, we know the chinook are in short supply. We know that seals are not by a long shot. I think you could anticipate a recommendation when we make our report that we apply the precautionary principle in a way that at the very least intuitively seems to make sense under these circumstances.

That's it for me.

[The Chair]

Thank you, Mr. Hardie.

That leaves a little bit of extra time.

I know now that normally we would go to the NDP for three minutes. With the permission of the committee, I'd like to continue with five-minute rounds until we run out of the allotted time, if that's okay. Okay.

I see it is.

Mr. Masse, welcome to the committee, and the top floor is yours for five minutes or less.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the opportunity to be here and follow up with some of the southern resident killer whale questions. I know the announcement was made yesterday.

What were the barriers to acting sooner? There's been a lot of discussion about the situation. Was there anything that prevented action sooner than just yesterday? I know there have been announcements going back to 2016, but not related to the southern resident killer whales.

[Philippe Morel]

I don't see any barriers. We've acted on many things since several years ago. They're just additional measures that are done, but I don't see any barriers being put to the department to act.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Okay. It took some time.

At this point in time, then, do you have a priority list of how the money is going to be spent in terms of what could be the most effective way? I didn't see the particular announcement myself, but I know the money was.... Can you outline how you prioritize the $61.5 million and how soon you expect to receive the directives for action? Have you measured how long it will take to get those specific actions for the funds?

[Philippe Morel]

Those actions are either completely new or built on previous actions. The details for the funding on each of these actions will come later, and will be announced by government when they will be ready.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

How did you come up with $61.5 million, then?

[Philippe Morel]

We billed a proposal to the government, and they approved it. After that we worked out the details with central agencies such as Treasury Board and the Department of Finance. The details will be announced for each initiative in the near future.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Exactly what initiatives do you have? Can you give us a comprehensive list, then, of the initiatives, or is it that you can't tell us—

[Philippe Morel]

What was announced by the minister yesterday is the comprehensive list of activities that are supported by the decision.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

What would be the priority? Do you have a ranking of three priorities of where the funding is going to go? The public is going to be interested in following where the money is going to be allocated, so do you have a—

[Philippe Morel]

Sure.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

That would be helpful.

[Philippe Morel]

We have a plan that we cannot share right now, but we have a plan to use the money over the next five years to support that, and it's based on the priorities and the research that we've done.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Why can't you share that plan?

[Philippe Morel]

It's because I don't have the authority to share that plan at the moment.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Who's stopping you from doing that?

[Philippe Morel]

I'm not stopped; it's just the government process to have the full authority, and right now I don't have the authority to share where each dollar is going.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I'm not really asking for each dollar; it's just the $61.5 million. You'll have to forgive me, because I spent most of my time here with Industry, Science and Technology. When there are announcements, say, in the auto sector or other types of initiatives, there's usually at least a ballpark figure or something, especially when you have $61.5 million. You might be able to give us a glimpse. I'm not asking per dollar; I'm asking if half of it going to some initiative, or approximately how much. What are the priorities of where the funding is going to go? I think that's a reasonable request, especially given that the studies that you talked about were done....

Maybe you can reference which studies they were and what they've identified in terms of resources that might be necessary. Can you at least tell us the studies that were used and what resources they've suggested?

[Adam Burns]

Yes. There are sort of three broad categories of initiatives that were announced yesterday: one is around prey availability and habitat protection, another is around reducing disturbance—the work around vessels, primarily—and then the third is around reducing contaminants.

There are a variety of measures under each of those categories. Some measures are more costly than others, and more dollars doesn't signal a higher priority necessarily. It's around what a particular initiative costs. That would be how it was done.

For example, we've referenced a couple of times here the hatchery production, and I believe the announcement was $500,000 to achieve that. It's a small component, but clearly the augmentation of adult chinook enhancement is an important component around providing the necessary prey for southern resident killer whales.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

That's helpful.

Do I have much time?

[The Chair]

You're out of time right now. We'll get back to you again.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you very much for answering.

[The Chair]

Now it's back to the government side—which is going to seem strange—to ask questions.

Go ahead, Mr. Simms, for five minutes or less, please.