Evidence of meeting #117 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was whales.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Okay, thank you.
Mr. Burns, a few moments ago you were asked about competing predators on salmon, such as seal populations, sea lions and so on. You indicated that a lot more science is required before starting to manage those stocks.
How much more science is required when all reports are that the seal populations in that area of the coast are ten times or more than their historical levels? When does the science ever catch up to the reality?
3:50 p.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
The issue here, of course, is that there is a broad ecosystem-based assessment that would need to be undertaken. There is no doubt that the seals you're talking about have salmon as a prey, for example—
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
It has been known for 10 years or more through studies on the Puntledge River, I believe, that the seal predation on smolts was obviously seen to be a problem. There was a management program put in place then. Now the numbers are 10 times that, from what I've seen and heard. Everyone is asking why something can't be done. What's the holdup? How much science do we need?
3:50 p.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It really is a matter of understanding what benefits would be achieved by population control. As an example, for the harbour seals, which I think are one of the main species we're talking about here, the studies we have show that in the Strait of Georgia, for example, only about 10% of their diet is made up of salmon. Their primary prey is—
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
That 10% is at a key time when those smolts are migrating out of the river and can be up as high as 90% of their diet. That science is there. Why the delays in DFO taking action?
3:50 p.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It really is about the ecosystem consideration there. Harbour seals are also the prey of other whale populations—
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
They are transient killer whales and there's no problem with their population numbers. Southern residents do not prey on seals or sea lions. Why the delay?
3:50 p.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
You're right that the preferred food source for southern residents is the chinook food source. All I can tell you is that there is a broader set of considerations that need to be better understood.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Do you have population targets set for killer whales or for the prey species or their competing predators?
3:50 p.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I don't know in terms of the recovery plan for southern resident killer whales....
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Wouldn't that be the first step in determining how many you really need and how many are environmentally sustainable?
3:50 p.m.
Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
You're talking about for the harbour seal...?
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
I'm talking about harbour seals. I'm talking about orcas. I'm talking about chinook salmon. Do you have any targets or goals that you can be held accountable to?
3:50 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Aquatic Ecosystems Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
For the killer whales, the target is an increase in population.
3:50 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Aquatic Ecosystems Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Well, we don't know, but certainly it's at lower levels since 1980. I don't have the exact number for where we should be, but right now what we're noticing is a decrease in the population that is constant over many years, and that is clearly related to the impact of noise, the reduction of prey, and some contaminants, so what—
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
You have no target numbers that you would like to bring it back to?
3:55 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Aquatic Ecosystems Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
It doesn't work like that on recovery for species. There's no critical point at which we say it has recovered—
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Has any species that has been listed as at risk ever been brought off that list?
3:55 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Aquatic Ecosystems Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Sure. There are some species. I don't have the names with me, but there are some species that were put on the list by COSEWIC and after a certain period of time were reassessed. COSEWIC does reassess the species, sometimes from endangered to threatened or of special concern, or they are just taken off the list. It does happen.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
When could we expect some target numbers to be set for the chinook stocks, the seal populations and the killer whales?
3:55 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Aquatic Ecosystems Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
I don't think you will see a target to say that 76, 85 or 100 is a target. It's about how they survive in the ecosystem, if they are in good health and if they can reproduce. Any increase will be analyzed by our science and the trends will be demonstrated to us, but there's no number. It's not an economic or a market—
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
There are no real goals so nobody can be held accountable.
Thank you.
3:55 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Aquatic Ecosystems Sector, Department of Fisheries and Oceans
Well, there's no way we can set goals on these kinds of things.
Mr. Arnold, I found the answer for the second retardant. It's HBCD. You asked for the two fire retardants.